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Post by gst on May 20, 2016 16:45:26 GMT
Has anyone run across a good discography for Argo? Everything I've found doesn't seems to distinguish if there is a chronological order to the label's color. For instance: www.bsnpubs.com/chess/argo600.htmlThere does at least seem to be two different fonts (see from vinylbeat.com pics below). I'm assuming the cream color label in the middle is later as it looks like the stereo label (far right).    |
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Post by gregorythefish on May 20, 2016 20:23:40 GMT
i don't know a ton about argo (don't own any, in fact) but i do have two things to say:
1) I foolishly passed on an NM/NM "meet the jazztet" a few months back for only $5 because I was in a hurry. stupid, stupid.
2) vinylbeat is atrociously organized, and in some cases just flat-out wrong. i would trust discogs for individual releases for a label like argo that isn't super well-documented yet.
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Post by gst on May 20, 2016 21:55:36 GMT
i don't know a ton about argo (don't own any, in fact) but i do have two things to say: 1) I foolishly passed on an NM/NM "meet the jazztet" a few months back for only $5 because I was in a hurry. stupid, stupid. 2) vinylbeat is atrociously organized, and in some cases just flat-out wrong. i would trust discogs for individual releases for a label like argo that isn't super well-documented yet. "Meet the Jazztet" is on my list as well as Ahmad Jamal's "But Not For Me" (and I'm sure more to follow). Also I did see vinylbeat had some issues, but I like their pictures and wanted to credit them. |
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joe
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Post by joe on May 21, 2016 0:57:40 GMT
To answer your question: no. However, I own a fair number of Argos and am a big fan, so have spent some time trying to piece together a discography. There is no clear color scheme that I can discern. Also, the first few labels were different. 601 was the first LP and was made when the label was named Marterry. 602-605 were on the "ship" label. It's awesome! They should have kept it. Starting at 606, it went to the "ARGO vertically on the left with deep groove" label. As far as I can tell, there is no rhyme nor reason to the color scheme. Mono were silver on black; black on gray; or gold on teal. (Although there is at least one Ahmad Jamal double LP set that is silver on maroon). Mono promos (that I've seen) were black on white, and then black on cream. Stereo labels were white on blue (most common); and black on gold. The gold background with argo in pink and white on the left in a sort of diamond shape came later on, but I've never been able to figure out when. One color variation of those labels is present on everything through Argo 759, which was when it switched over to Cadet. (Some sites claim that 754-759 were "original" on Cadet, but that makes no sense to me; to me, the Argo label must be first for those LPs). So:
601 - Marterry
602-605 - Argo ship label with deep groove
606-759 - Vertical ARGO on left with deep groove (various colors for mono; others for stereo)
760 and on: Cadet
The Jazztet albums are all good. Big City Sounds is a personal favorite. Of the Ahmad Jamal records, But Not For Me is the classic. I also like Ahmad Jamal's Alhambra because it features a cool cover photo of his short-lived nightclub on S. Michigan Ave in Chicago. Also recommended (that I've heard anyway) are: Red Rodney Returns; James Moody - Cookin' the Blues (killer record, fantastic sound); Baby Face Willette - both Behind the 8 Ball and Mo' Rock; Art Farmer - Art; Gene Shaw - Breakthrough; Max Roach - Max; Introducing Roland Kirk; and Daddy-O presents MJT+3 (not like the MJT+3 records on Vee Jay). And, of course, on the non-jazz side of things - Ella James - At Last. Got to have a copy of that! I haven't heard the Vito Price, Paul Gonsalves, Sahib Shihab, or Johnny Griffin LPs because they are too damned expensive!
Hope that helps.
Joe L
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joe
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Post by joe on May 21, 2016 0:59:14 GMT
Etta James, obviously!
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Post by gst on May 22, 2016 21:07:29 GMT
Joe, any rhyme or reason behind the different fonts?
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joe
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Post by joe on May 24, 2016 1:50:42 GMT
After I responded to your post, I became interested in discovering: (a) if there was some pattern to the label colors; and (b) if so, if I could pin down when the label colors changed. It appears, from looking at my own LPs and doing some internet research, that, for mono jazz releases (from 606, after the ship label was retired, through 795), the LPs were all silver on black, and then changed to black on gray. The first LP I can find with both silver on black AND black on grey is Argo 655 - Kenny Burrell - A Night At the Vanguard. Before that, they all appear to be silver on black with deep groove. It may have changed over before then, but many of the immediately preceding records were not big sellers, so there are no photos (that I can find) online. (Note, this is NOT when Argo started issuing stereo LPs. That research, I have not done yet!)
As to your question about fonts, I suspect it's because Argo (Chess) used different printers, like it used different printing presses; matrix info is all over the place, and different records have different stamper styles, fonts, and numbers and symbols. Likewise, vinyl weight varies dramatically, even for records pressed close in time. So, it stands to reason that Chess would use different printers too.
This is obviously all back of the napkin, on the fly research. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by gst on May 25, 2016 17:04:29 GMT
After I responded to your post, I became interested in discovering: (a) if there was some pattern to the label colors; and (b) if so, if I could pin down when the label colors changed. It appears, from looking at my own LPs and doing some internet research, that, for mono jazz releases (from 606, after the ship label was retired, through 795), the LPs were all silver on black, and then changed to black on gray. The first LP I can find with both silver on black AND black on grey is Argo 655 - Kenny Burrell - A Night At the Vanguard. Before that, they all appear to be silver on black with deep groove. It may have changed over before then, but many of the immediately preceding records were not big sellers, so there are no photos (that I can find) online. (Note, this is NOT when Argo started issuing stereo LPs. That research, I have not done yet!) As to your question about fonts, I suspect it's because Argo (Chess) used different printers, like it used different printing presses; matrix info is all over the place, and different records have different stamper styles, fonts, and numbers and symbols. Likewise, vinyl weight varies dramatically, even for records pressed close in time. So, it stands to reason that Chess would use different printers too. This is obviously all back of the napkin, on the fly research. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Interesting. I would think the logo/font would remain the same regardless of where a record was pressed. I'm going to have to look further into this, but I feel like it needs a LJC Prestige like push to get anywhere. Comparing stereo to earlier mono editions may be the key here. |
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joe
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Post by joe on May 26, 2016 14:48:14 GMT
I agree - I'm assuming that because they used different presses for the the vinyl, they also used different printing presses for the labels as well. Meaning, since they obviously outsourced the vinyl pressing, they probably outsourced the paper pressing as well. Just a reasonable guess.
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Post by gst on May 26, 2016 15:26:35 GMT
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Post by alunsevern on Jun 11, 2016 9:27:44 GMT
GST, it's odd that you should mention the Argo label because it's one I'm very fond of -- but not for its jazz, which I know virtually nothing about, but for its numerous spoken word recordings of poetry issued in the 50, 60s and 70s, of which I have a number. I believe these commenced once the label was taken over by the British Decca company.
At one time, if one was interested in hearing poets read their work -- especially performance greats like Dylan Thomas, then LPs were the only way to do it, and Argo was at the forefront. The other lovely thing about them is that many had terrific mid century modern graphic covers.
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Post by Martin on Jun 11, 2016 10:50:56 GMT
Ah, Alun, watch out! There were two Argo labels. One here in the UK, which is the one you're thinking of (also released some British Jazz LPs by the likes of Michael Garrick) and an American label that changed its name to Cadet to avoid the confusion and was later taken over by Chess.
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Post by alunsevern on Jun 11, 2016 13:24:09 GMT
Hi , Martin -- ah, two different Argos... Stupid of me. So they're not the same thing at all, then?
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joe
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Post by joe on Jun 16, 2016 17:10:15 GMT
Alun - the US Argo label was the jazz subsidiary of Chess Records. Operated by the Chess brothers on the south side of Chicago, with most albums recorded in the Chess Ter-Mar studios. The Argo name was changed to Cadet in 1965, allegedly to avoid confusion with the spoken-word label you have mentioned.
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Post by SPENCER on Jun 22, 2016 14:21:56 GMT
I only know that Argo was later bought out by Cadet around the 70s and for a brief transitional period their albums had the Argo logo and the Cadet logo on the labels.
One of the best live recording I've ever heard was Ahmad Jamal's Alhambra on Argo. I highly recommend this album for anyone, just incredible playing and stellar recording. I believe Jamal made most of his recordings with Argo and was their flagship talent for a long time
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