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Post by Rich on Sept 5, 2015 16:41:06 GMT
What's eveyone's take on live jazz? I know Alun prefers the home listening experience. I've always been fascinated by the simple phenomenon of recorded music, the entire process, capturing the sounds, mixing them, and reproducing them. When I lived in Albany, New York, I was able to see a dozen or so live performances, not a lot, and no legends or anything like that.
Now that I'm living in NYC, I have sought out a bit of live jazz and to be honest I haven't been blown away by the results. I did catch the end of one cookin' band's set, the drummer was definitely from the old school and he could really swing. The trumpeter was a bit younger but they were definitely footed in the bop tradition (I recall hearing them play "C.T.A."). That band was great but I got the impression they were from out of town.
Anyway, pretty much all the other times I've seen live jazz, let's say about two dozen times, I haven't necessarily enjoyed myself. It seems that 'newer' players are more prone to, um, 'dense' soloing and more 'heady' compositions of their own crafting. In fact, I'm quite surprised that there isn't more groups out there just covering classic bop tunes; I would think there's some money to made in gigging like that. You know, even playing more mainstream stuff like Sidewinder, Song for My Father, Moanin, etc. (Maybe even throwing on the classic style old suits too.)
So what is everyone's experiences with live jazz? Any bands anyone knows of around or in and out of the New York area that do something like I'm describing?
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jcband
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Post by jcband on Sept 5, 2015 20:20:02 GMT
I listen to quite a bit of live music as a teacher. I try to attend as many local jazz events as possible so my ear stays straight so I can make sure my students sound stays true as well as playing in an ad hoc big band from time to time.
As far as playing the classics you can cover the charts but the essence of playing jazz is the freedom it offers to create on the spot so a good player soloing will never be the same. I vaguely remember a story about Miles Davis hearing a sideman practicing a solo that he had done on stage and Miles told him he paid him to practice on stage and if he caught him doing it again he was fired.
If you get the chance check out Jazz At Lincoln Center or Dizzy's Coca Cola Room. Great high end players.
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Fredrik
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fwrarejazzvinylcollector.com
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Post by Fredrik on Sept 6, 2015 13:25:15 GMT
I enjoy live jazz. I've been to some good live performances here in Stockholm, with Bernt Rosengren, Krister Andersson, Karl Olandersson, Ulf Adåker and so on. Good stuff, but let's face it, the brand of hard bop that we love, played by the masters of that era are gone. Perhaps never to return? I went to see Wayne Shorter last year, but that didn't really rock my boat. Was it even jazz?
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Post by alunsevern on Sept 6, 2015 17:07:26 GMT
As Rich has noted, I'm not a live jazz person. I'm not even a live music person. The last live gig I went to was I think around 2008 and it was a very good Tomasz Stanko set. I bought tickets to see him again a couple of years later but in the event I failed to show. I did the same thing with the Stan Tracey Octet. I have no problem with making the occasional charitable donation to musicians but this struck even me as something of a waste of time. So I don't do it any more -- and that was I am never disappointed.
However, I know one or two very keen live jazz fans and what I have observed of them - which I admire - is that they really work at it. They approach love jazz in the spirit in which it is intended, I think - acknowledging that sometimes it flies, sometimes it doesn't. I have a friend who goes to NYC once a year specifically to buy jazz and see live jazz. In a week or so he hears more live jazz than I have in a lifetime. I guess I'm simply not prepared to make the effort.
Now, the home listening experience (with headphones) has become the only thing I really recognise or understand. It has become the only way I can really appreciate music. I don't even like listening to music with other people - it seems strange.
I recognise that my attitude is somewhat weird.
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Fredrik
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Post by Fredrik on Sept 6, 2015 17:50:41 GMT
I would never use headphones, that's for sure :-) Jazz is probably supposed to be experienced live, as it's improvisational music, and the nerve in a live setting is thrilling if the band is good.
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Post by gregorythefish on Sept 6, 2015 19:59:36 GMT
i like live jazz, but i don't really seek it out.
i like the idea of bands playing bop, but i wouldn't support a complete rehashing of the old guard. music must change.
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Evan
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Post by Evan on Sept 7, 2015 2:35:29 GMT
I'm personally a big fan of live jazz - in fact, I probably have live jazz to thank for my interest in the recorded form.
I live in northern Japan, in a city of about two million people. There are lots of jazz bars here, and they have regular live shows. Some places are live spots only, and are commonly owned by pianists who play most nights of the week with various guests. My favourite place is owned by a fantastically swinging bop pianist called Ryo Fukui. (He made two LPs in the 70s, which sell for hundreds online today and which I have never seen anywhere, but regularly seeing him live makes up for it.) His hero is Barry Harris, who has also played there on a few occasions, but unfortunately not since I started going there. Anyway, digressing - I love going to live shows, and I'm often the first person there, in order to take my seat next to the pianist, to watch him (it's always a guy). Watching good piano players is utterly mesmerising...
I would love to occasionally see suited bands belting out hard bop classics, even ones as commercial as The Sidewinder, etc. When I think of all the mediocre music I've suffered down the years just because that was where my mates were going, why wouldn't I want to hear/see a nice lineup of jazz musicians? I went to Seoul last year and found two great jazz spots. One of them was a beautiful club, but when I got there I was told that it was a student session night. I was disappointed, but went in anyway as I wasn't going to find anywhere else, and it was my last night. Anyway, these students were superb. They weren't actually that young - mid 20s, most of them - so I don't know why I had been so pessimistic. It was solid hard bop all night - some I knew, a lot I didn't - and there was a wonderful sense of camaraderie amongst the musicians in terms of sharing the stage and encouraging and supporting and cheering one another. I couldn't help but feel very jealous that nothing remotely like this had been available to me growing up - and, tangentially, how much better a lot of troubled neighbourhoods in Ireland and other places might be if young people had great projects like this to get involved in.
Have any of you been to New Orleans? Any stories about the live jazz scene there? A trip there is high on my list after seeing HBO's Treme.
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Evan
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Post by Evan on Sept 7, 2015 2:58:06 GMT
I don't even like listening to music with other people - it seems strange. I recognise that my attitude is somewhat weird. I'm with you on listening to music with other people. It's almost a contradiction in terms. When we have people over, music is just "on". Nobody's listening to it. I feel rude even trying, and have to stop myself drifting out of conversations and into whatever's playing, which can be difficult, depending on the company and the music. |
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Evan
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Post by Evan on Sept 7, 2015 5:48:51 GMT
i like the idea of bands playing bop, but i wouldn't support a complete rehashing of the old guard. music must change. Greg, your profile picture! You are so not how I pictured you! That is an amazing moustache. Looking good! (I haven't been on here in ages, studying...) I take your point here, but they're not mutually exclusive. Let's have some rehashing of the old guard, and some pioneers, too. More jazz for everyone. Though would we like it if everyone did? |
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Post by alunsevern on Sept 7, 2015 7:43:24 GMT
I would never use headphones, that's for sure :-) ....... I'm 61. My ears are shot. Some hearing loss and persistent tinnitus make headphone listening preferable and more enjoyable -- i can hear more easily and hear more detail. I have long since given up worrying about how music "is supposed to be experienced", whether jazz or other music... |
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Post by gregorythefish on Sept 7, 2015 14:55:02 GMT
Evan, haha yes, I figured so many other people use their own face, I'd use mine.
And thanks. the moustache is fun to cultivate.
i like your take. i just mean that as much as i like bop, i think i'd be a terrible hypocrite if i expected jazz to stay in that box forever, despite that i might not enjoy its forward motion.
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Fredrik
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Post by Fredrik on Sept 7, 2015 15:00:49 GMT
Alun, gotcha.
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Post by dottorjazz on Sept 7, 2015 19:32:31 GMT
I used to attend live Jazz in the past. I've seen the Art Ensemble of Chicago, Ella Fitzgerald, Charles Mingus, Sun Ra, Max Roach, Art Blakey, Archie Sheep, Miles Davis 3 times, Art Pepper, Sonny Rollins, Kenny Burrell, Cecil Taylor, Thad Jones and many others. I've been in Den Haag for the North Sea Jazz Festival. in the past. now I limit myself to sporadic concerts, the last one last year. as you know, I can't see a new direction today, so I'm not interested in hearing something that I already know. maybe if I lived in NY it would be different, but i live in Italy.
no headphone, I don't even owe one, and I'm not an audiophile. I've got a good equipment but I listen to music, not sound.
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Evan
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Posts: 99
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Post by Evan on Sept 7, 2015 23:51:28 GMT
...as much as i like bop, i think i'd be a terrible hypocrite if i expected jazz to stay in that box forever, despite that i might not enjoy its forward motion. Agreed. If there were bands belting out classics everywhere we went, we'd soon tire of it - but to hear one just now and again would be sweet. It's mostly piano trios where I live, which I love, but the extra oomph of a few horns wouldn't go amiss either. Regarding its forward motion, Alun seems the most au fait with the contemporary stuff, and you don't have to look far to see him singing its praises. I followed up a few recommendations, but I can't seem to find any of that stuff here. |
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Post by Rich on Sept 8, 2015 2:15:00 GMT
I listen to quite a bit of live music as a teacher. I try to attend as many local jazz events as possible so my ear stays straight so I can make sure my students sound stays true as well as playing in an ad hoc big band from time to time. As far as playing the classics you can cover the charts but the essence of playing jazz is the freedom it offers to create on the spot so a good player soloing will never be the same. I vaguely remember a story about Miles Davis hearing a sideman practicing a solo that he had done on stage and Miles told him he paid him to practice on stage and if he caught him doing it again he was fired. If you get the chance check out Jazz At Lincoln Center or Dizzy's Coca Cola Room. Great high end players. I certainly wasn't suggesting that the musicians play popular recordings of jazz classics note-for-note, just that the band might play them, play stuff that someone like me will be familiar with, stuff from the '50s and '60s.  Cool story about Miles too. I have heard of Dizzy's but haven't been...I will definitely check it out! |
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