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Post by Rich on Sept 8, 2015 2:23:17 GMT
I would never use headphones, that's for sure :-) Jazz is probably supposed to be experienced live, as it's improvisational music, and the nerve in a live setting is thrilling if the band is good. Alun and Fredrik: I have always gathered that the emphasis was more on live performance back in the day (maybe even still today). I think The Beatles (and The Beach Boys I suppose, Phil Spector etc.) did a lot to change the way people think about the recording studio and how it can be used creatively, and how recordings can be more than merely capturing a live performance in a studio. But I have gathered that many great jazz musicians from the bop era 'valued' the live performance setting more than the studio performance. That doesn't change the fact that I love the recordings, nor do I think the musicians gave anything less than their best effort on them, but I have definitely heard Coltrane and Monk say similar things about feeling that live performance gets closer to the essence of jazz and what they believed it was about. Even our hero, Rudy Van Gelder, shaped his sound in a way that resembled a small club sound as closely as possible.
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Post by Rich on Sept 8, 2015 2:37:31 GMT
i like live jazz, but i don't really seek it out. i like the idea of bands playing bop, but i wouldn't support a complete rehashing of the old guard. music must change. To each his or her own of course, but for me, seeing a quintet play an entire set of classics like "Get Happy", "Blue Train", "What Is This Thing Called Love", "Softly as in a Morning Sunrise" etc. would be incredibly entertaining, for me at least much more entertaining than sitting there trying to wrap my head around the cerebral, 'musician's music' prog-jazz I have heard most of the times that I've seen live jazz. Don't forget, Greg, the jazz we love to collect on vinyl is closely tied to music from the near past of that time; covers of standards were commonplace and from what I've read newer tunes were often written with chord changes borrowed from standards. So is Miles Davis' version of Charlie Parker's "Ah Leu Cha" any less valid or interesting to you because it's a cover? Of course I am genuinely asking, not looking to argue.
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Post by Rich on Sept 8, 2015 3:10:37 GMT
I'm personally a big fan of live jazz - in fact, I probably have live jazz to thank for my interest in the recorded form. I live in northern Japan, in a city of about two million people. There are lots of jazz bars here, and they have regular live shows. Some places are live spots only, and are commonly owned by pianists who play most nights of the week with various guests. My favourite place is owned by a fantastically swinging bop pianist called Ryo Fukui. (He made two LPs in the 70s, which sell for hundreds online today and which I have never seen anywhere, but regularly seeing him live makes up for it.) His hero is Barry Harris, who has also played there on a few occasions, but unfortunately not since I started going there. Anyway, digressing - I love going to live shows, and I'm often the first person there, in order to take my seat next to the pianist, to watch him (it's always a guy). Watching good piano players is utterly mesmerising... I would love to occasionally see suited bands belting out hard bop classics, even ones as commercial as The Sidewinder, etc. When I think of all the mediocre music I've suffered down the years just because that was where my mates were going, why wouldn't I want to hear/see a nice lineup of jazz musicians? I went to Seoul last year and found two great jazz spots. One of them was a beautiful club, but when I got there I was told that it was a student session night. I was disappointed, but went in anyway as I wasn't going to find anywhere else, and it was my last night. Anyway, these students were superb. They weren't actually that young - mid 20s, most of them - so I don't know why I had been so pessimistic. It was solid hard bop all night - some I knew, a lot I didn't - and there was a wonderful sense of camaraderie amongst the musicians in terms of sharing the stage and encouraging and supporting and cheering one another. I couldn't help but feel very jealous that nothing remotely like this had been available to me growing up - and, tangentially, how much better a lot of troubled neighbourhoods in Ireland and other places might be if young people had great projects like this to get involved in. Have any of you been to New Orleans? Any stories about the live jazz scene there? A trip there is high on my list after seeing HBO's Treme. Nice post Evan. (By the way: are you born and bred in Japan or are you from elsewhere?) I need to make more of an effort to get out to Smalls and the Village Vanguard in the West Village (only a 20 minute train ride from where I live in Brooklyn Heights ). There's also Smoke (never been), The Jazz Standard, Birdland (never been), and as someone mentioned above, Dizzy's. I had the opposite experience with college players. I went to Wally's in Boston, now relocated but a famous jazz club there, and I got the impression the players were students from Berklee College of Music and they were jamming on tunes written by some of the players. It never really grabbed me...this probably sounds ignorant but it seemed like a lot of 'showing off' going on and not enough real 'emotion' I'd say, lacking a genuine feel. I have been to New Orleans and only managed to catch blues down there, so sorry no jazz report.
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Post by Rich on Sept 8, 2015 3:18:49 GMT
Evan, haha yes, I figured so many other people use their own face, I'd use mine. And thanks. the moustache is fun to cultivate. i like your take. i just mean that as much as i like bop, i think i'd be a terrible hypocrite if i expected jazz to stay in that box forever, despite that i might not enjoy its forward motion. And of course I'm not proposing that all jazz musicians stop all composing and turn to learning and performing standards! It would just be nice to see 'throwback' groups recreating the energy of the '50s and '60s, that's all! Maybe kinda like a Beatles tribute band for jazz, I don't know.
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Evan
Junior Member
Posts: 99
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Post by Evan on Sept 8, 2015 6:40:27 GMT
I'm personally a big fan of live jazz - in fact, I probably have live jazz to thank for my interest in the recorded form. I live in northern Japan, in a city of about two million people. There are lots of jazz bars here, and they have regular live shows. Some places are live spots only, and are commonly owned by pianists who play most nights of the week with various guests. My favourite place is owned by a fantastically swinging bop pianist called Ryo Fukui. (He made two LPs in the 70s, which sell for hundreds online today and which I have never seen anywhere, but regularly seeing him live makes up for it.) His hero is Barry Harris, who has also played there on a few occasions, but unfortunately not since I started going there. Anyway, digressing - I love going to live shows, and I'm often the first person there, in order to take my seat next to the pianist, to watch him (it's always a guy). Watching good piano players is utterly mesmerising... I would love to occasionally see suited bands belting out hard bop classics, even ones as commercial as The Sidewinder, etc. When I think of all the mediocre music I've suffered down the years just because that was where my mates were going, why wouldn't I want to hear/see a nice lineup of jazz musicians? I went to Seoul last year and found two great jazz spots. One of them was a beautiful club, but when I got there I was told that it was a student session night. I was disappointed, but went in anyway as I wasn't going to find anywhere else, and it was my last night. Anyway, these students were superb. They weren't actually that young - mid 20s, most of them - so I don't know why I had been so pessimistic. It was solid hard bop all night - some I knew, a lot I didn't - and there was a wonderful sense of camaraderie amongst the musicians in terms of sharing the stage and encouraging and supporting and cheering one another. I couldn't help but feel very jealous that nothing remotely like this had been available to me growing up - and, tangentially, how much better a lot of troubled neighbourhoods in Ireland and other places might be if young people had great projects like this to get involved in. Have any of you been to New Orleans? Any stories about the live jazz scene there? A trip there is high on my list after seeing HBO's Treme. Nice post Evan. (By the way: are you born and bred in Japan or are you from elsewhere?) I need to make more of an effort to get out to Smalls and the Village Vanguard in the West Village (only a 20 minute train ride from where I live in Brooklyn Heights ). There's also Smoke (never been), The Jazz Standard, Birdland (never been), and as someone mentioned above, Dizzy's. I had the opposite experience with college players. I went to Wally's in Boston, now relocated but a famous jazz club there, and I got the impression the players were students from Berklee College of Music and they were jamming on tunes written by some of the players. It never really grabbed me...this probably sounds ignorant but it seemed like a lot of 'showing off' going on and not enough real 'emotion' I'd say, lacking a genuine feel. I have been to New Orleans and only managed to catch blues down there, so sorry no jazz report. Haha, no, I'm from Ireland. Moved here just over two years ago. Okay, this will sound ignorant: are those clubs you mentioned - Village Vanguard, Birdland - the very same places our great records were recorded? If so, how have you resisted going?! I'd say your experience with college players is probably more the norm. There is one jazz bar here that regularly features students, but it has a reputation for terrible playing. Apparently the owner is not the friendliest to foreigners, too, and it's expensive, so I've stayed away. I've seen from his website that he has a nice collection of records there, though, so I might head in early some evening and have a look. You'd be amazed at the valuable records you see in collections here sometimes - very often not even behind the bar. For example, in Osaka earlier this year, I was looking through a collection and saw Open Sesame, The Cooker and Lee-Way all within a few seconds. They weren't even very near the bar, let alone behind it. The old gentleman there put on Open Sesame for me, and I asked him if he knew how much it was worth. He didn't seem the least bit bothered when I told him. I'm not even sure he knew which of his records were originals and which weren't. I've entertained the idea of bringing him a Japanese reissue and offering him a couple of hundred dollars. Maybe next year if I go back.
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Post by alunsevern on Sept 8, 2015 9:08:25 GMT
[...] I listen to music, not sound. Interesting distinction, Dott. I'm trying to work out which of those two categories I would fall into. Would it be splitting hairs to say I listen to music....but find that inseparable from how it *sounds*, because I think that probably *is* pretty much my position.
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Post by dottorjazz on Sept 8, 2015 19:55:27 GMT
well, I did listen to sound when I built my equipment. I spent almost a year in matching gear and cables. I've got Mark Levinson dual monaural preamplifier N.26, Krell KSA 250 as power ampli, Michell Gyro Dec with Well Tempered Arm, Magneplanar MG 3.3 speakers. once I got the sound i liked, I stopped listening to sound and went back to music.
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Post by gregorythefish on Sept 8, 2015 21:31:08 GMT
evan: indeed those venues are the same. birdland has moved but the lineage is straight from the original. i saw pharoah sanders play there. and the village vanguard still stands.
but they tend to host artists that just barely play 'jazz' if you ask me. 'cocktail' music is more like what they offer now, in my opinion.
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Post by alunsevern on Oct 5, 2015 8:46:34 GMT
well, I did listen to sound when I built my equipment. I spent almost a year in matching gear and cables. I've got Mark Levinson dual monaural preamplifier N.26, Krell KSA 250 as power ampli, Michell Gyro Dec with Well Tempered Arm, Magneplanar MG 3.3 speakers. once I got the sound i liked, I stopped listening to sound and went back to music. You see, Dott, that's what makes you an audiophile and me....an owner of a record player. I don't even know what most of the things you mention are let alone what they do
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Post by dottorjazz on Oct 5, 2015 9:24:17 GMT
no Alun, I'm not an audiophile, I built my gear in 1988 and is unmodified yet. as you know I never enter audiophile posts, that's not my knowledge nor interest. I'm satisfied with the sound my gear gives, but I'm more satisfied with the sound of music. I think I have only one "audiophile" record; I'm not disturbed in (moderate) vinyl wear and love first editions. when I think about the gears used back in the 50's and 60's, I consider myself very happy when a record comes up in VG++ or better conditions. one of my tasks is to be able to find a great record in great conditions (please see Fredrik's site) that's why I've changed lots of copies in the decades.
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Post by alunsevern on Oct 13, 2015 18:26:29 GMT
OK, Dott -- agreed. I should just have said "makes you the owner of VERY, VERY good equipment and me the owner of a record player"...
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Post by jazzhead on Jan 5, 2016 12:23:41 GMT
Does anyone here stream live jazz? I've stumbled across two very good sites that stream live music. First up is Smalls: a small jazz club in New York that you can watch every night of the week for free. Tonight (Tuesday 5th January 2016) the owner who is a very good pianist starts off the nights live music at 19:30 EST (00:30 GMT). You can watch the live stream for free. No ads just live music every night of the week. If you like you can pay to access their extensive archive. All info here www.smallslive.com/events/live-stream/Then there's my next favourite; Live At The Village Vanguard. There's a ton of audio content here and it's free. There's Jimmy Cobb, Ravi Coltrane, Al Foster, Martial Solal, Joe Lovano, Lou Donaldson, Barry Harris, Cedar Walton and more. www.npr.org/series/90611896/live-at-the-village-vanguard/Enjoy!
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Post by dottorjazz on Jan 5, 2016 14:19:16 GMT
great jazzhead! I was unaware of these sites, a very useful way to be where I would like but I can't. thanks!!
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Post by alunsevern on Jan 5, 2016 17:43:24 GMT
Thanks, jazzhead -- I'm listening to the ever interesting Bill McHenry at the VV as I write. Thanks for the pointers -- I had heard about the Smalls stream but had forgotten to follow it up. The VV stream I didn't know about.
McHenry is fantastic with a piano (Orrin Evans) in the line-up rather than his usual guitarist (Ben Mondir, as good as he is), the great Andrew Chrille on drums and Eric Revis on bass.
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Post by jazzhead on Jan 5, 2016 17:54:52 GMT
No problem guys.
Edit: There's a load of live jazz concerts on Sky Arts if you're in the UK. If you're not then these live concerts are probably available on YouTube.
On your remote: tv guide / Catch Up TV / Sky Arts / All Music / Blues, Jazz & Soul
Chet Baker Live in '64 & 79 Count Basie Live in '62 Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers Live in '58 Ella Fitzgerald Live in '57 & '63 Dizzy Gillespie Live in '58 & '70 Quincy Jones Live in '60 Buddy Rich Live in '78 Thelonious Monk Live in '66 Dave Brubeck Live in '64 & '66 John Coltrane Live in '60, '61 & '65 Duke Ellington Live in '58 Sarah Vaughan Live in '58 & '64 Dexter Gordon Live in '63 & '64 Charles Mingus Live in '64 Wes Montgomery Live in '65 Bill Evans Live in '64 & '75 Oscar Peterson Live in '63, '64 & '65 Sonny Rollins Live in '65 & '68 Coleman Hawkins Live in '62 Jimmy Smith Live in '69 Anita O'day Live in '63 & '70 John Coltrane Live in France '65 Thelonious Monk Live in France '69 (Solo) Ella Fitgerald Live at Montreux '69
Something really exceptional from The Thelonious Monk Quartet:
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