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Post by dottorjazz on Oct 14, 2019 17:34:39 GMT
hi Flow, question a bit complicated. original issues are orange and black, Vangelder in dead wax. red black is a second issue, and there are at least two different versions. the main differences are in the logo box. at first it was connected, as you describe, then they were separated: 9187 has to be the first with two separate boxes. but it's not enough. the same 9187 issue should have ® in both lower corners of logo box, absent until 9186. from here on, all issues with separate boxes have the registered mark even if some more numbers have the "old" connected box. if your version is without ® in logo box, it's surely older. hope it helps.
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Flow
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Post by Flow on Oct 14, 2019 20:21:48 GMT
hi Flow, question a bit complicated. original issues are orange and black, Vangelder in dead wax. red black is a second issue, and there are at least two different versions. the main differences are in the logo box. at first it was connected, as you describe, then they were separated: 9187 has to be the first with two separate boxes. but it's not enough. the same 9187 issue should have ® in both lower corners of logo box, absent until 9186. from here on, all issues with separate boxes have the registered mark even if some more numbers have the "old" connected box. if your version is without ® in logo box, it's surely older. hope it helps. Sir, thank you very much for the insight. It helped indeed. First of all it helped that I flipped my LP and discovered something I had not noticed before: the A-Side label shows connected boxes without ® (and that's the one I looked at all the time), but the B-Side label has the sparated boxes with ®. Arrrrrgggghhhhhh. But okay, that would mean this is a version older than 9187 (=1972), right? Hm. Thanks a lot again.
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Post by dottorjazz on Oct 15, 2019 5:39:35 GMT
I try the answer with an example from my collection. Impulse AS 9183, Charlie Haden Liberation Music Orchestra. recorded 1969, published 1970. -first issue had connected boxes and no ®. -then an hybrid, one side connected boxes and no ®, the other side separated boxes and ® (which is mine, identical to your Meditations). -at last two sides with separated boxes and ®. moreover, referring to my Haden, the "older no ® label" reads (bottom): a product of ABC Records Inc New York, NY 10019 Made in USA the "newer ® label", reads: a product of ABC Records Inc ⓒ 1971 we can assume that this hybrid was published in 1971 with a transitional label.
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Flow
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Post by Flow on Oct 15, 2019 20:44:53 GMT
I try the answer with an example from my collection. Impulse AS 9183, Charlie Haden Liberation Music Orchestra. recorded 1969, published 1970. -first issue had connected boxes and no ®. -then an hybrid, one side connected boxes and no ®, the other side separated boxes and ® (which is mine, identical to your Meditations). -at last two sides with separated boxes and ®. moreover, referring to my Haden, the "older no ® label" reads (bottom): a product of ABC Records Inc New York, NY 10019 Made in USA the "newer ® label", reads: a product of ABC Records Inc ⓒ 1971 we can assume that this hybrid was published in 1971 with a transitional label. Many thanks! I had another look at the labels, but unfortunately there's no year mentioned on both of them. I guess it's safe to say my copy ismore from early/mid seventies then. I reached out to the seller on Discogs, luckily seems a very nice and reasonable guy. That was of great help, dottorjazz. But how crazy that you have a similar case with different labels. Wondering what might have been the reason for it, just a human error or something like "Oh, we still got the old ones, use them first, saves us a few bucks."?
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Post by mortolan on Oct 15, 2019 21:03:08 GMT
Flow, as per DottorJazz as well, if your black/red ring Impulse labels don't read, "a product of ABC Records Inc ⓒ 1971", the pressing predates 1971.
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Flow
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Post by Flow on Oct 16, 2019 9:23:09 GMT
Flow, as per DottorJazz as well, if your black/red ring Impulse labels don't read, "a product of ABC Records Inc ⓒ 1971", the pressing predates 1971. Thanks mortolan. I have to admit, it confuses the heck out of me.
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Post by gregorythefish on Oct 16, 2019 14:21:49 GMT
you'll get used to it. it takes awhile.
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Post by dottorjazz on Oct 27, 2019 18:12:46 GMT
IMPULSE NUMBERING EVOLUTION
when LJC, some years ago, introduced the question "SUFFIX A", every serious collector had to check all his own Impulse, with more than a bad surprise from what expected. actually I did suffer from this feature...so I began to deepen the argument.
as an example I chose Oliver Nelson The Blues and the Abstract Truth, A 5. as you all know, this record was published with two different covers, an "abstract" and a "portrait". it would seem simple that records with abstract cover came first and records with portrait second. but this ain't enough. and inside? and on back cover? let's analyze both mono and stereo. mono issues, orange label:
1) A5, AMPAR on label, AMPAR on back cover, abstract cover: this is the original first mono issue 2) A5, ABC on label and ABC on back cover, portrait cover: this is the second issue 3) A5-A, ABC on label and ABC on back cover, portrait cover: this is the third issue I couldn't find A5-A with abstract cover: do they exist?
but... what is this? 4) A5, ABC on label, AMPAR on back cover, abstract cover. an original AMPAR cover, no suffix A, but second manufacturer (on label only) I don't know when the first cover was withdrawn nor when ABC Paramount replaced AMPAR. this looks an hybrid, a first change between first and second issue. stereo issues, orange label:
1) A5S, AMPAR on label, AMPAR on back cover, abstract cover: this is the original first stereo issue 2) A5S, ABC on label and ABC on back cover, portrait cover: this should be the second issue 3) AS5-A, ABC on label, AMPAR on cover, abstract cover.
Impulse used prefix A followed by cat number, dash, S for the first 14 stereo issues, from A1-S to A14-S, then changed to AS-15 on. all previous issues bringing this new numbering, AS-1 to AS-14 must be considered NOT first issues. I wouldn't have expected a "suffix-A" issue in an original abstract cover. if we make a comparison with 4) mono, we could have expected an A5S , ABC label, AMPAR abstract cover, never an AS5-A: a cover substitution?
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Post by Doom Girl on Oct 27, 2019 20:24:28 GMT
Impulse used prefix A followed by cat number, dash, S for the first 14 stereo issues, from A1-S to A14-S, then changed to AS-15 on. all previous issues bringing this new numbering, AS-1 to AS-14 must be considered NOT first issues. I wouldn't have expected a "suffix-A" issue in an original abstract cover. if we make a comparison with 4) mono, we could have expected an A5S , ABC label, AMPAR abstract cover, never an AS5-A: a cover substitution? I believe this should read "from A-1-S to A-14-S" While obvious to the aficionados, this can get confusing to the tyros, such as myself.
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Post by saxoblues on Sept 6, 2022 12:39:26 GMT
after a search of 2 years, I finally found this first pressing without the suffix in its stereo version !
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Post by gregorythefish on Sept 6, 2022 13:58:20 GMT
congratulations, saxo! that's no small feat. I dare say those might be rarer than the WLP!
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Post by Doom Girl on Sept 6, 2022 14:33:47 GMT
after a search of 2 years, I finally found this first pressing without the suffix in its stereo version ! Very nice. Do the spine, and front and back covers have "STEREO A-77" ?
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Post by Doom Girl on Sept 6, 2022 14:40:04 GMT
after a search of 2 years, I finally found this first pressing without the suffix in its stereo version ! What kind of condition are the record and jacket in?
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Post by saxoblues on Sept 7, 2022 7:09:15 GMT
after a search of 2 years, I finally found this first pressing without the suffix in its stereo version ! Very nice. Do the spine, and front and back covers have "STEREO A-77" ? yes , I can take additional pictures if you want
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Post by saxoblues on Sept 7, 2022 7:10:58 GMT
after a search of 2 years, I finally found this first pressing without the suffix in its stereo version ! What kind of condition are the record and jacket in? NM/NM
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