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Post by dottorjazz on Jul 9, 2019 20:06:31 GMT
just like museums' curators, I'm trying to get everything out from Impulse darkness and ask everybody's help. while completing a whole overview on this label I found several problems I would like to solve. here's the first: AS-9120: John Coltrane Expression orange label, a product of ABC records INC. New York N.Y. 10019 on label, a product of ABC records INC on back cover. engineer Rudy Van Gelder VAN GELDER stamped on side 2 only can everybody check your copy (mono as well) to see if Van Gelder is on both sides?
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Post by dottorjazz on Jul 9, 2019 20:11:30 GMT
A-9134: Archie Shepp Mama Too Tight orange label, a product of ABC records INC. New York N.Y. 10019 on label, a product of ABC records INC on back cover. engineer Rudy Van Gelder NO Van Gelder in dead wax
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Post by dottorjazz on Jul 9, 2019 21:12:49 GMT
A-11: Quincy Jones The Quintessence orange label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on back cover A-12: Benny Carter Further Definitions orange label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on back cover A-13: CURTIS FULLER SOUL TROMBONE orange label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on back cover I don't have these records: correct NO Van Gelder?
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cds23
New Member
Posts: 20
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Post by cds23 on Jul 9, 2019 21:16:41 GMT
A-9134: Archie Shepp Mama Too Tightorange label, a product of ABC records INC. New York N.Y. 10019 on label, a product of ABC records INC on back cover. engineer Rudy Van Gelder NO Van Gelder in dead wax A very interesting thread! I can't help with "Expression" and "Mama Too Tight", but I know for a fact that several Impulse albums, while recorded by Van Gelder, were mastered by Bell Sound. "Ballads" by Coltrane and "The Blues And The Abstract Truth" by Oliver Nelson are probably the best known examples - while very first pressings (Am-Par) have Van Gelder on both sides, repressings (same year or a bit later) have Bell Sound-only credits or combinations of both (Van Gelder/Bell Sound). A quick look at Discogs showed that Van Gelder did not cut the Shepp record. "Expression" however, has one side Van Gelder, the other blank on most versions - BUT: the Canadian Sparton version has both sides stamped with Van Gelder - it seems pretty random and unrelated to the release date, since there's no way that the Sparton was released before the first U.S. pressing. edit: I see you added the Benny Carter: I once had the record, a later Stereo pressing (no Am-Par) with orange/black labels and a black stereo sticker on the mono cover: it had Van Gelder on both sides. Seems as if Creed Taylor/Bob Thiele were unhappy with some of Van Gelder's early cuts and had them mastered once again or by someone else in the first place. Once the records had to be repressed, no one cared for this change of heart, that's my uneducated guess.
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Post by gst on Jul 9, 2019 21:31:26 GMT
A-11: Quincy Jones The Quintessenceorange label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on back cover A-12: Benny Carter Further Definitionsorange label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on back cover A-13: CURTIS FULLER SOUL TROMBONEorange label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on back cover I don't have these records: correct NO Van Gelder? Correct for A-13 except mine is stamped RVG on both sides (mine is mono).
I don't have any of the others...yet
I once had the Quincy Jones albums in my hands and put it back for some reason.
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Post by dottorjazz on Jul 9, 2019 21:38:17 GMT
Correct for A-13 except mine is stamped RVG on both sides (mine is mono). interesting and thanks: I found: engineer STEREO: Frank Abbey, engineer MONO: Bob Arnold may RVG have done the mastering?
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Post by dottorjazz on Jul 9, 2019 21:46:08 GMT
edit: I see you added the Benny Carter: I once had the record, a later Stereo pressing (no Am-Par) with orange/black labels and a black stereo sticker on the mono cover: it had Van Gelder on both sides. Seems as if Creed Taylor/Bob Thiele were unhappy with some of Van Gelder's early cuts and had them mastered once again or by someone else in the first place. Once the records had to be repressed, no one cared for this change of heart, that's my uneducated guess. thanks cds23: so, in this case we have the opposite than for Curtis Fuller: recorded by RVG, remastered by others while Fuller was recorded by others and remastered by RVG, no other way to explain the presence of RVG on some issues.
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Post by Doom Girl on Jul 10, 2019 1:55:56 GMT
My orange label stereo copy of Expression has the things you described on the label and back cover. The dead waxes are interesting. Side A has the inscribed (written) LW and a rather large stamped AS 9120 A. Side B has the inscribed LW, a tiny stamped VAN GELDER and an inscribed (written) AS 9120 B. Do you think that it's possibel that Rudy didn't record the A side? Your question prompted me to get out my Expression album for the first time in a long time and it was nice to see an old friend again. These old Impulse albums were so beautifully made. It was nice how they made this album a tribute of sorts with the half black front cover with John Coltrane's birth and death dates on it. Inside the gatefold there is a collection of classic Coltrane photos - The Love Supreme cover photo (which was taken by Bob Thiele and was Coltrane's favorite of himself), Coltrane smoking a cigar, on soprano, etc. and notes by Nat Hentoff.
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Post by Doom Girl on Jul 10, 2019 2:08:57 GMT
If you are the person that made the really useful colection of Impulse labels: I have noticed an error in your pictures of Impulse Guide to First Stereo Pressings. In the place where you should have Impulse AS-9202, (actually AS-9202-2) John Coltrane’s “Live in Seattle.” You have a picture of AS-9200-2, “The Best of John Coltrane.” No doubt this error was made because of the similarities of numbers of the two two-record sets. I have the Live in Seattle set if you need any further information about it. Thanks for all you have contributed to the LJC site. It's really cool.
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Post by dottorjazz on Jul 10, 2019 6:49:28 GMT
thanks Doom Girl, so you confirm Van Gelder on side B on Expression, STEREO: all tracks were recorded by RVG. let's see if something different happens. I'm interested to know if the same happens on MONO versions I'm not the author of the Impulse job on LJC, it's our host's: sure he reads here and will rectify.
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Post by bassman on Jul 10, 2019 6:57:49 GMT
A-11: Quincy Jones The Quintessenceorange label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on back cover A-12: Benny Carter Further Definitionsorange label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on back cover A-13: CURTIS FULLER SOUL TROMBONEorange label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on label, a product of Am-Par record Comp on back cover I don't have these records: correct NO Van Gelder? A-11 and A-12 were recorded at Capitol Studios,NYC, while A-13 was recorded at RVG, Englewood Cliffs.
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Post by gregorythefish on Jul 10, 2019 13:41:43 GMT
such good work, everyone!
My records match up exactly with GST's.
Also, welcome DOOM GIRL. Consider making a full account!
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Post by saxoblues on Jul 11, 2019 16:49:38 GMT
My orange label stereo copy of Expression With you described label and back cover adress, He's got the vangelder stamp on both sides on my lp
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Post by dottorjazz on Jul 16, 2019 18:09:48 GMT
A-16: Max Roach It's Time A-17: Jackie Paris The Song is Paris A-19: Manny Albam Jazz Goes to the Movies A-20: Shelly Manne 234 all these records were RE-RECORDED and MASTERED by RVG, but not originally recorded. question: VAN GELDER stamped on all?
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jcband
Junior Member
Posts: 65
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Post by jcband on Jul 17, 2019 1:22:15 GMT
Are you interested in the mono records only or do you want stereo as well? Most of my Impulses are stereo.
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