Tommy Flanagan Trio "Overseas" Question

WebWax (rolls723 on IG)
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Tommy Flanagan Trio "Overseas" Question Oct 30, 2020 22:45:03 GMT

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Post by WebWax (rolls723 on IG) on Oct 30, 2020 22:45:03 GMT

Hello All,

I hope that this post finds you all well and safe during these unprecedented times. I'm in a pre-election panic/anxiety attack mood here in the states at the moment, and may ask for some overseas housing recommendations (for a family of 5) should things go amiss here on November 3rd!

I'm posting tonight with the hope that one of you jazz aficionados can help shed some light on a question about The Tommy Flanagan Trio "Overseas" record, originally released on Prestige Records in 1958 (PRLP-7134).

I recently purchased a copy of this album's second USA release from 1969 as part of the "Prestige Historical Series". Sounds official, right? This release has the silver and blue trident stereo label per the Prestige catalog from '65 to '69 (in various forms, thanks LJC!!), and with a God-awful cover design!! This reissue has a "Van Gelder" stamp in the runout, but no stereo stamp.

I looked up original release on Discogs and it has the yellow and black fireworks label with 446 W. 50th Street address, but makes no reference to any Van Gelder etching or stamp.

The original session engineer is credited as Gosta Wilhom.

My long-winded question is this: Did Van Gelder master the original release as well?

The sound quality on the reissue is fantastic, but I have no idea why they chose to change the amazing original cover?? Another example of Weinstocks poor decision making, I guess??

I looked up the prices of the original release on Popsike and the highest price was in 2014 for $3,507! Wow!! No mention of mastering credits.

Ironically, the third highest price on Popsike was $787 in 2018 with, what appears to be the original cover (or a version of it), with the same silver and blue trident stereo label from the '69 reissue. This time noting the Van Gelder stamp in the runout. Yikes!!

Thank you in advance for any help on clarifying when Van Gelder mastered this incredible record!!

Best,
Tom

bassman
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Tommy Flanagan Trio "Overseas" Question Oct 31, 2020 8:38:23 GMT

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Post by bassman on Oct 31, 2020 8:38:23 GMT

Your copy is PRST 7632, right? There is one thing I can assure you, that in spite of its stereo label, it is either mono or fake stereo. Some of these PRST's do sound very good, admittedly.

Edit: The Metronome/Prestige originals were mastered by RVG (see Martin above).

Last Edit: Oct 31, 2020 18:48:04 GMT by bassman

Martin
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Tommy Flanagan Trio "Overseas" Question Oct 31, 2020 8:39:53 GMT gregorythefish likes this

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Post by Martin on Oct 31, 2020 8:39:53 GMT

First, greetings from the UK. I hope you and your family are safe and well in the current challenging climate in the US.

Some observations on Flanagan's Overseas (forgive me if you know this stuff already)...

1). Overseas was recorded in Sweden for the local Metronome label. The music was first released in Sweden as a series of three 7-inch 45 rpm EPs. Rudy Van Gelder was not the recording engineer nor did he do the mastering for these EPs.

2). Prestige subsequently licensed the recordings from Metronome and released them as the Overseas LP PRLP7134 in mono.

3). Your Popsike research is a little awry. There have been many more expensive auctions of the first version of the LP than the one you mention as third highest. See www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=flanagan+overseas&sortord=dprice&pagenum=1&incldescr=&layout=&sprice=&eprice=&endfrom=&endthru=&bidsfrom=&bidsthru=&flabel=&fcatno= for example. It's a heaviweight holy grail among collectors in that specific version.

4). When Prestige first licensed the recordings, they got Rudy to do the LP mastering as evidenced by the presence of his RVG mark in the deadwax.

5). I'm not familiar with the version you have but, based on your description, it sounds like a later Prestige repress. The lack of a stereo stamp doesn't surprise me because I'm almost certain that the original session was recorded in mono only. I'm intrigued by your mention of a "Van gelder" stamp. If it has that specific marking rather than "RVG" then it suggests Rudy mastered it a second time for the repress.

I hope that information helps you and I expect some of my learned friends will be able to add more for you.

As I expect you have already gathered, your copy isn't it the same stratospheric collectibility league as the Metronome EPs or the first version of the Prestige LP. But, hey, it's great music and superbly recorded, so carry on enjoying it!

Post by WebWax (rolls723 on IG) on Oct 30, 2020 22:45:03 GMT

Post by bassman on Oct 31, 2020 8:38:23 GMT

Post by Martin on Oct 31, 2020 8:39:53 GMT

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