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Post by jazzhead on Aug 6, 2019 22:45:16 GMT
Jelly Roll Morton: ‘I Created Jazz In 1902, Not W.C. Handy’ JELLY ROLL MORTON, CLASSIC INTERVIEW By Jelly Roll Morton | Published August 1938 Exceprt: In your broadcast of March 26, 1938, you introduced W.C. Handy as the originator of jazz, stomps and blues. By this announcement you have done me a great injustice, and you have also misled many of your fans. It is evidently known, beyond contradiction, that New Orleans is the cradle of jazz, and I, myself, happened to be creator in the year 1902, many years before the Dixieland Band organized. Jazz music is a style, not compositions; any kind of music may be played in jazz, if one has the knowledge. The first stomp was written in 1906, namely “King Porter Stomp.” “Georgia Swing” was the first to be named swing, in 1907. You may be informed by leading recording companies. “New Orleans Blues” was written in 1905, the same year “Jelly Roll Blues” was mapped out, but not published at that time. New Orleans was the headquarters for the greatest ragtime musicians on earth. There was more work than musicians. Everyone had their individual style. My style seemed to be the attraction. I decided to travel, and tried Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, Kentucky, Illinois and many other states during 1903 and 1904, and was accepted as sensational. In the year of 1908, I was brought to Memphis by a small theater owner, Fred Barasso, as a feature attraction and to be with his number-one company for his circuit, which consisted of four houses, namely Memphis, Tennessee; and Greenville, Vicksburg and Jackson, Mississippi. That was the birth of the negro theatrical circuit in the U.S.A. It was that year I met Handy in Memphis. I learned that he had just arrived from his home town, Henderson, Kentucky. He was introduced to me as Professor Handy. Who ever heard of anyone wearing the name of Professor advocate ragtime, jazz, stomps and blues? Of course, Handy could not play any of these types, and I can assure you he has never learned them as yet (meaning freak tunes, plenty of finger-work in the groove of harmonies, great improvisations, accurate, exciting tempos with a kick). I know Mr. Handy’s ability, and it is [based on] folk songs, hymns, anthems, etc. If you believe I am wrong, challenge his ability. Full article: downbeat.com/archives/detail/jelly-roll-morton-i-created-jazz-in-1902-not-w.c.-handyThat was one hell of a read. This paragraph alone is something else: My contributions were many: First clown director, with witty sayings and flashily dressed, now called master of ceremonies; first glee club in orchestra; the first washboard was recorded by me; bass fiddle, drums—which was supposed to be impossible to record. I produced the fly swatter (they now call them brushes).
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Post by dottorjazz on Aug 7, 2019 6:54:53 GMT
interesting, I did not know this little black war between Jazz originators. and what about the "King of jazz", white, or the "King of swing", white? Paul Whiteman and Benny Goodman and the Dorsey bros kept the major attention from (white) public in the 20's, 30's and 40's. their black counterpart being Duke, Count and Fletcher. if now (and even then) we'd put these two groups of names on the opposite sides of the Musical History scale, we'll see the white side jumpin' out. nor Duke, nor Count Basie, nor Fletcher Henderson could be rewarded the same way as their white counterpart. and this wrong attitude went on in the 50's and 60's, read Miles' or Mingus' autobiographies. almost no one cried this out (except Miles). nowadays, with all the black (now Afro-American) art on the shields, there's one voice claiming Jazz as Black Art: BAM. must be a genetical matter: black comes first, almost anywhere in Jazz. there are great white musicians as well, but they came AFTER, not before. the only possible exception is Lennie Tristano. Art Pepper, one of my favorites, comes after Bird. I'm no racist but black is better. I'm white. and now the question: the great majority of us knows little about pre war Jazz and looks uninterested in studying Jazz History. I've a few records from that period only and have never been interested to deepen. Why? I've got no good answer.
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Post by bassman on Aug 7, 2019 11:05:36 GMT
[ ... ] and now the question: the great majority of us knows little about pre war Jazz and looks uninterested in studying Jazz History. I've a few records from that period only and have never been interested to deepen. Why? I've got no good answer. Dottore, I can imagine quite a number of reasons for people to neglect early jazz and swing music. The things that used to turn me off at first were lack of sound quality in records and - more important - lack of what I thought was "decent jazz rhythm". I still agree with André Hodeir (pardon me, Gregory) in his assessment of Armstrong's Hot Five & Hot Seven. Read more in his "Jazz, its Evolution and Essence", where he justifiably dates the emergence of mature jazz rhythm (my words, not quoting) around 1935. By the way, I always found Bix Beiderbecke's Wolverines (1924) more swinging than their black contemporaries, except some lucky occasions in 1923 when King Oliver plus Armstrong on second cornet were swinging really hard. Armstrong was, both in rhythmical terms and otherwise, at least ten to fifteen years ahead of his time. His Hot Five companions in the mid-twenties were not.
As for Jelly Roll Morton, I would invite everybody to listen to "The Chant" and "Black Bottom Stomp". Not always rhythmically perfect in modern terms, but perfect in both structure and instrumental prowess. Just crazy.
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Post by sztiv on Aug 7, 2019 11:19:38 GMT
I'm gonna put Jelly Roll on the turntable and take the baby for a dance to shut her up.
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Post by alunsevern on Aug 8, 2019 9:08:59 GMT
I share Dottore's resistance to early 'hot' jazz and swing and like him don't really have an entirely satisfactory answer for why this should be. Bassman is right in part -- sound quality is part of the problem. But there are other reasons -- although these may be UK-specific reasons. Let me try and explain. During the 50s and 60s in this county when quite big-name literary figures wrote about jazz in the daily papers -- people such as the poet Philip Larkin and the novelist (and friend of Larkin) Kingsley Amis -- these critics were absolutely unequivocal champions of pre-war black jazz, Dixieland and swing. Indeed, jazz pretty much stopped rather than began around 1935. Modern jazz and especially bebop was an anathema. By and large they loathed the modern. For listeners. Growing up due g this period a reaction against traditional jazz and swing was the norm.
Add to this fact that during the 60s Britain inexplicably experienced a Trad revival. It seems strange now to think that during the late 50s and into the 60s, if jazz was on TV it was almost certain to be a British trad revivalist band wearing waistcoats and bowler hats. Whether this was a Europe-wise phenomenon I'm not sure, but now that I think about it, even one of my uncles whose usual interest in music went no further than the staples of country & western music of that time -- Jim Reeves, for instance -- was obsessed with the Dutch College Swing Orchestra (I think that was the name), and belted out these LPs as loudly as his knackered little Dansette record player could manage.
That was another reason for ignoring 'old' trad jazz.
What I'm trying to explain, I suppose, is that for listeners of a certain age traditional hot jazz has 'baggage' -- in my case, certainly, never overcome. I wish I could say "will try harder", but I know it won't be the case...
Anyway, as I write this I take great pleasure in the mental image of Sztiv and baby daughter dancing to Jelly Roll Morton.
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Post by bassman on Aug 8, 2019 13:54:11 GMT
The Dutch Swing College Band! Competent professionals, just like Kenny Ball, Chris Barber, Acker Bilk, Papa Bue ... such was the music that must have appealed to Alun's uncle. (It led others to explore the music of Gerry Mulligan, Chet Baker, Jimmy Giuffre, Miles Davis.)
In contrast, Jelly Roll Morton was playing some of the most progressive jazz music of his time. But the time was 1926.
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Post by dottorjazz on Aug 8, 2019 16:01:03 GMT
I wish I could say "will try harder", but I know it won't be the case... if Alun says he wishes he could, I say I won't. my interest in modern (post war) Jazz satisfies me that I have no desire, nor time, to go back. but: some of the older musicians, playing in the 30's and early 40's, have always my appraisal. essential: 1) Coleman Hawkins, Body and Soul, 1939 2) Lester Young: Jumpin' at the Woodside (with Basie), 1938 3) Lady Day, your choice 4) an all white band: Woody Herman, Four Brothers 1947 (Zoot, Stan, Serge and Herbie Steward
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Post by alunsevern on Aug 8, 2019 16:27:41 GMT
The Dutch Swing College Band! Competent professionals, just like Kenny Ball, Chris Barber, Acker Bilk, Papa Bue ... such was the music that must have appealed to Alun's uncle. <...> The Dutch Swing College Band -- thank you for remembering the name more accurately than I could, bassman. My Uncle George had teeth like Ken Dodd and beyond the football on TV I don't recall hi having any interest beyond tinkering with cars. If I ever saw him wearing anything except oily blue overalls then I don't remember it. But my God, he thought The Dutch Swing College Band were terrific.
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Post by sztiv on Aug 8, 2019 18:43:21 GMT
That's a great hatchet job on the UK trad revival Alun. My father didn't have the oily overalls and couldn't fix a car if his life depended upon it. But he liked his skiffle. He spent his national service in Winnipeg, after which he purchased an old car and drove around the USA: Chicago, LA etc. listening to dixieland. I've always looked on the trad revival as the first of what became successive waves of UK youth movements imported from the USA. Greasers, Mods, Hippies. Punk was the first time we created something of our own - although even then it could be argued that without the New York Dolls and Velvet Underground it wouldn't have happened. Fortunately I wasn't left any Dutch Swing College Band records but I did get some King Ory, Louis A, King Oliver & George Lewis. The only trad revival record being this one.. www.discogs.com/Various-British-Festival-Of-Jazz-Concert/release/9340607PS Danielle wasn't keen on Jelly Roll, I'm gonna try her on Humphrey Lyttelton.
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Post by Doom Girl on Aug 8, 2019 20:47:45 GMT
Many predawn hours spent here dancing the baby to sleep. Another trick I learned was to hold her over the spinning disc – a kind of hypnotic trance, I guess, conducive to calm – and she grew up loving all kinds of music. Silver Convention’s “Fly, Robin, Fly” might work, but you’d have to polish up your disco moves.
British music in mid-twentieth century Britain - Trad jazz, Acker Bilk, the Dutch Swing Band, Skiffle – to paraphrase ex-U.S. President George W. Bush re Trump’s Inaugural Address – “that was some weird shit.” But who am I to criticize – I still play with my original Rolf Harris Stylophone.
Most “Dixieland Jazz” (New Orleans or Chicago) I’ve heard I don’t like – as with other commentators, a lot of my dislike may be due to the rhythm sections, but I also usually find the group improvisations artless and annoying, a lack of harmonic sophistication. The one exception is Louis Armstrong, who stood head and shoulders above his peers – an amazing artist and virtuoso who seemingly sprang full-blown from the god of music – not a mere mortal like the rest. I still listen to the Hot Five and Seven recordings – the foundation of much of what followed in jazz. (A riotous description of Armstrong’s influence and status among his peers can be found in Mezz Mezzrow’s “Really the Blues.”)
Swing music is another story – there is a lot of great music in this period and some of the large swing bands produced some very fine music indeed. I was fortunate to inherit from my father-in-love some records from the swing era and have purchased a few myself. Basie, Goodman, Herman, Eckstein…. all produced a lot of fine music and of course many of the bop musicians came out of this tradition. (A good compilation is the Columbia box set “Swing Time: The Fabulous Big Band Era – 1925 -1955”)
For a time I was putting together rap/hip-hop compilation CDs (yes, I know, wtf?) and would often sneak in blues, r & b and jazz tracks – one time I opened a mix with Woody Herman’s “Early Autumn” section of Ralph Burn’s Summer Sequence – a timeless beauty that appeals to (nearly) everyone ☺
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Post by sztiv on Aug 9, 2019 11:19:18 GMT
Silver Convention’s “Fly, Robin, Fly” might work, but you’d have to polish up your disco moves. The baby thinks I'm John Travolta. She'll learn the truth in due course.
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Post by nicknick on Aug 9, 2019 16:34:41 GMT
Piano duel between Jelly Roll Morton and 1900 from "The Legend of 1900" by Giuseppe Tornatore.
Jelly Roll Morton: 1900: I'm sure you all remember the film:-)
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Post by bassman on Aug 9, 2019 16:53:44 GMT
The Dutch Swing College Band! Competent professionals, just like Kenny Ball, Chris Barber, Acker Bilk, Papa Bue ... such was the music that must have appealed to Alun's uncle. <...> The Dutch Swing College Band -- thank you for remembering the name more accurately than I could, bassman. My Uncle George had teeth like Ken Dodd and beyond the football on TV I don't recall hi having any interest beyond tinkering with cars. If I ever saw him wearing anything except oily blue overalls then I don't remember it. But my God, he thought The Dutch Swing College Band were terrific. Now to wrap this up ...
... there is at least one good thing to be said about the Dutch Swing College Band. One of their albums appeared as part of the unique Fontana "Jazz Club Series", a collection of really great jazz performances culled from different labels, complete with cheesecake cover art: jazzpopart.wordpress.com/2011/02/18/les-pochettes-crees-a-montrouge-volumes-6-10/
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Post by gregorythefish on Apr 21, 2020 14:57:49 GMT
any claim to have solely "invented" jazz is very silly.
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