moko
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by moko on May 2, 2015 8:51:07 GMT
A great album Blue Hour I picked up a dark blue label copy of it recently and have played it to death...
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Post by Spencer on May 3, 2015 16:10:13 GMT
call me an MM follower, but I'm telling you and everyone now, the MM reissue of this record is stupendous! The Original RVG Blue Note issue is got nothing on this baby! If I'm lying I'm flying!
Sonic pleasure nearly on the same wavelength as an orgasm (notice I said "nearly').
Gene Harris' Piano should once and for all shame anyone who thinks RVG knows nothing about recording pianos.
LJC you should hear the "attack" & "decay" on this one!
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Post by Spencer on May 5, 2015 16:31:08 GMT
I have long suspected that the success of the Music Matters Blue Note series without Steve Hoffman is like a festering sore on Hoffman. A year ago or so I was barred from the site for taking MM's side on a contentious issue.
It amuses me this morning to report that a dear friend of mine, Don Mason, whom I've shared numerous listening sessions with, has just been banned this morning from the Hoffman forums. Don was banned cuz he described Gene Harris' piano on Blue Hour as sounding "peach plum perfect" or is it "plum peach perfect". His other sin was that he dared to point out to another member that Point of Departure, Matador, Speak No Evil, Workout, The Golden 8, Hub-Tones, Right Now, Us Three, and Unity are all first rate Blue Note titles.
On the other hand I warned Don that he would run into problems on Hoffman if he praised the work Kevin Gray and Ron Rambach are doing on these reissues too much on that site. I dare say my friend Don has learned a valuable lesson about Hoffman. Can't help but laugh at his predicament.
I had warned him that the environment on Hoffman's site has so much in common with Orwell's 1984 and Animal House.
In lieu of this development,
I once again salute LJC for being a devotee of free speech. For having the confidence to all expression of ideas on his forum, even the ideas that challenge his own, without resorting to censorship.
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Post by Spencer on May 12, 2015 18:51:07 GMT
Grant Me A Bud!
May 2015 MM titles just arrived
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Post by Spencer on May 23, 2015 1:11:32 GMT
"Do you remember Longfellow's Children's Hour? Well, this is the Blue Hour and it is not for children"---Ira Gitler from the Blue Hour liner notes“If you’ve got it, flaunt it” is always been the American way. It’s a mentality the rest of the world might frown upon but Americans will never stop flaunting our wealth; our military, and certainly our pop culture. Yes, there is a lot of resentment out there against America for this very reason; truth be told life is too short for most Americans to give a damn about how the world feels about us, and truth be told Americans will keep “flossing” so long as we got “it”. “It” is the mojo that propels the great tradition of American flaunting. Music Matters and Blue Note Records with the help of mastering engineer Kevin Gray have got “it” in spades and they are not afraid to flaunt. The recent reissue of Blue Hour BN 4057 by Music Matters is a case in point. It would seem that Ron Rambach and Kevin Gray have fully embraced the “if you’ve got it, flaunt it” mentality. Indeed why not flaunt it if you’ve got some of the best analog master tapes in the world at your disposal? This “flaunting” approach is in direct opposition to the Steve Hoffman “breath of life” approach that dominated some of Music Matters early 45rpm BN reissues. An approach that led to a rolled off sound and sort to attain an exaggerated moist warm sound in the early 45rpms by rolling off the top end and bloating the bottom end. It is a sound that became known in some myopic circles as the “audiophile sound”. I for one never cared for it and I’m not alone in this regard. Fast forward to the present; Music Matters sans Hoffman, and the records are now cut in 33rpm format, sound is bolder, raw and raunchier. The dynamics are in your face. Put it bluntly, these 33rpm records from Music Matters are a delight to anyone who listens to music and a torture to anyone who’ve trained their hearing all these years to believe that the “breath of Hoffman” is how records are meant to sound. No longer are RVG’s wondrous master tapes subdued by EQ. Back to Blue Hour; it is one of those odd recordings in the BN catalog that does not share the typical genealogy of most albums from that era. BN 4057 has a lot in common with some of the classic movies of Hollywood golden age. Like those movies it is mostly the vision of a producer. This was Alfred Lion putting a record together the way David O. Selznick would have put a movie production together. Like those golden age movies BN 4057 is more the vision of the producer than that of the artists involved, but because producers are usually not seen as creators it is harder to ascribe credit to one person. For some Blue Hour is a 3 Sounds album. For others it is a Stanley Turrentine record, but the truth lies somewhere between these two points of view. That truth is Alfred Lion put together this one time collaboration between Stanley Turrentine (who was mostly known for his association with Horace Parlan Trio) and the most commercially successful Blue Note trio, The 3 Sounds. The cover of the record is a dead give away of the album’s unusual genealogy. Unlike most Blue Note albums that usually placed the band leader’s name above the supporting cast, the cover of Blue Hour reflects the equal billing given to Turrentine and the 3 Sounds. The names are written on the same line mid-jacket, “Stanley Turrentine With The 3 Sounds”. The “with” in the billing signifying that this is a joint effort and not a band led by any one man. Lion saw the potential in pairing Turrentine’s soulful tenor with the pop oriented sensibilities of The 3 Sounds and his instincts paid off magnificently. Ira Gitler puts it more eloquently in his liner notes for the album, “The wedding of Turrentine The Three Sounds is the work of an astute matchmaker”. Musically Blue Hour is kin to Ike Quebec’s Blue and Sentimental BN 4098. Both records are comprised entirely of Blues Ballads. Pedigree-wise Blue Hour is a more sultry and sexier affair. As Gene Harris’ piano fades into focus like a moon light over a warm summer evening my mind conjures up a film noir femme fatale in form-fitting evening dress strolling into a picturesque night club, red lipstick and stiletto, all eyes on her. Yes, this is late hour music to sway to, music to cuddle with as you inhale cigarette smoke in bed after a love making session. To this listener, The 3 Sounds never sounded better than they do on this record. Stanley Turrentine is soulful as ever. RVG lavishes equal attention on all the instruments involved. It’s as if he’s honoring the idea that this is a group album this way. The remastering job by Gray and Rambach has me throwing around audiophile phrases such as “attack and decay” unabashedly. But it is the transparent sound that wafts through my speakers as I listen to this album that floors me. This is how analog recordings should sound, in your face, around you and overloading your senses. In all an A+ job by Gray and Rambach; a mastering team at the top of their game. With all this talk about “flaunting” it is easy to assume that is all there is to Americans; far from it, we are one of the sexiest country in the world. Blue Hour is ample proof of our sexiness…oh! Dear me, I feel like I’m flaunting agai n. Best to stop now.
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Post by Rich on Jun 14, 2015 15:06:17 GMT
call me an MM follower, but I'm telling you and everyone now, the MM reissue of this record is stupendous! The Original RVG Blue Note issue is got nothing on this baby! If I'm lying I'm flying! Sonic pleasure nearly on the same wavelength as an orgasm (notice I said "nearly'). Gene Harris' Piano should once and for all shame anyone who thinks RVG knows nothing about recording pianos. LJC you should hear the "attack" & "decay" on this one! As a collector of originals (and Music Matter reissues), I'm sure you can understand that I'm inclined to defend Van Gelder's originals. At this point I think it's obvious that modern vinyl made with care--as all the Music Matters reissues are--is more likely to get the listener closer to the sound of the original master tape, as Music Matters (and Hoffman) have touted. Depending on what album we're talking about and when it was recorded and released, an original will achieve this to a varying degree. By the time Van Gelder was working out of Englewood Cliffs, I would say his mastering work was excellent. He was still compressing a lot but he was getting good high frequency response and a good frequency balance. I'm not accusing you of the following, Spencer, but the other issue I have with comparing Van Gelder's originals to modern reissues is that I can't help but be suspect that many of these comparisons are being done with a less-than-near-mint original, which isn't fair. It took a lot of work but I have a few near-mint Van Gelder originals that sound fantastic. At the same time, I'm suspicious that most people who have casually tried out a few originals have never heard a truly near-mint Van Gelder original (specifically from 1957 or later). Finally, even if Van Gelder's originals in some way don't approach the 'accuracy' of modern reissues done by companies like Music Matters, that doesn't necessarily mean that the original pressing listening experience is void of value, nor does it even mean it's necessarily less desirable (whether or not it's worth thousands of dollars, however, is certainly open to debate). In a lot of instances, it's a very different listening experience. It's not as 'accurate' as a modern reissue, but it has a unique flavor and character, which is pleasing to a lot of individuals including myself. I think both listening experiences have their own unique qualities.
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Post by gregorythefish on Jun 15, 2015 14:15:51 GMT
all i have to say on your post, rich, is HERE HERE!
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Post by alunsevern on Jun 16, 2015 8:19:54 GMT
All I can say about the MM33s - and I have sung their praises elsewhere here on numerous occasions - is that they sound better than any other version I have owned of the same music, *not* including Blue Note originals, because other than a couple of late BN Liberty issues I don't have any 'originals'... I didn't buy Bud Powell/THE SCENE CHANGES because I had just picked up a decent CD for a few quid and decided to stick with that. And I didn't buy BLUE HOUR because to be perfectly honest it's a record that has bored me sometimes in the past, and the cheap reissue i did have i didn't keep. I may be tempted again, i suppose, but i sampled some of it online and concluded it was one i could live without. The sleeve has always outdone the contents - but that's just my personal opinion, of course.
On the other other hand, Parlan/SPEAKIN MY PIECE, which i did just buy, and which i thought was probably going to be a record that appealed only moderately to me, turned out to be terrific - and to sound glorious, of course.
As for whether the MM33s are better or worse with Steve Hoffman, I really don't care. Life is too short to worry much about the bruised egos of complete strangers, so i don't. Similarly, if the worst that ever happens is getting banned - or disliked - on an internet chat forum...again, life is too short.
And with all due deference to LJC and what he has built up here and over on the main website, i don't really think it is a free speech crusade or a courageous stand for personal liberty -- it's just plain old-fashioned, grown-up, civilised behaviour... No less commendable for all that, of course...
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Post by Spencer on Jun 17, 2015 0:25:11 GMT
All I can say about the MM33s - and I have sung their praises elsewhere here on numerous occasions - is that they sound better than any other version I have owned of the same music, *not* including Blue Note originals, because other than a couple of late BN Liberty issues I don't have any 'originals'... I didn't buy Bud Powell/THE SCENE CHANGES because I had just picked up a decent CD for a few quid and decided to stick with that. And I didn't buy BLUE HOUR because to be perfectly honest it's a record that has bored me sometimes in the past, and the cheap reissue i did have i didn't keep. I may be tempted again, i suppose, but i sampled some of it online and concluded it was one i could live without. The sleeve has always outdone the contents - but that's just my personal opinion, of course. On the other other hand, Parlan/SPEAKIN MY PIECE, which i did just buy, and which i thought was probably going to be a record that appealed only moderately to me, turned out to be terrific - and to sound glorious, of course. As for whether the MM33s are better or worse with Steve Hoffman, I really don't care. Life is too short to worry much about the bruised egos of complete strangers, so i don't. Similarly, if the worst that ever happens is getting banned - or disliked - on an internet chat forum...again, life is too short. And with all due deference to LJC and what he has built up here and over on the main website, i don't really think it is a free speech crusade or a courageous stand for personal liberty -- it's just plain old-fashioned, grown-up, civilised behaviour... No less commendable for all that, of course... This is the first chance I've had to peek in over here in a while... Alun, when I say "free speech" I mean just what you describe "it's just plain old-fashioned, grown-up, civilised behaviour...", well put. On Blue Hour and The Scene Changes, I have a feeling if you hear the MM33 pressings your appreciation for both records is likely to go up. On Hoffman: I don't habor any ill will toward the man and neither does my friend. But I'm not likely to avoid bringing his name up if it is pertinent to a particular topic of interest to me. For good or worse he is a part of the Music Matters Blue Note lore. I find it perturbing when people make a federal case out of any criticism leveled at him. You are quite right, the MM Blue Note reissues are better without Hoffman, they are better cause all the mastering duties are now handled by Kevin Grey and Ron Rambach two individuals who do not think they are smarter than RVG, two people who appreciate what's on those master tapes. The proof of all this is in the pudding. If my saying this is annoyance to anyone...well, there's nothing I can do to help it.
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Post by Spencer on Jun 17, 2015 0:49:17 GMT
call me an MM follower, but I'm telling you and everyone now, the MM reissue of this record is stupendous! The Original RVG Blue Note issue is got nothing on this baby! If I'm lying I'm flying! Sonic pleasure nearly on the same wavelength as an orgasm (notice I said "nearly'). Gene Harris' Piano should once and for all shame anyone who thinks RVG knows nothing about recording pianos. LJC you should hear the "attack" & "decay" on this one! As a collector of originals (and Music Matter reissues), I'm sure you can understand that I'm inclined to defend Van Gelder's originals. At this point I think it's obvious that modern vinyl made with care--as all the Music Matters reissues are--is more likely to get the listener closer to the sound of the original master tape, as Music Matters (and Hoffman) have touted. Depending on what album we're talking about and when it was recorded and released, an original will achieve this to a varying degree. By the time Van Gelder was working out of Englewood Cliffs, I would say his mastering work was excellent. He was still compressing a lot but he was getting good high frequency response and a good frequency balance. I'm not accusing you of the following, Spencer, but the other issue I have with comparing Van Gelder's originals to modern reissues is that I can't help but be suspect that many of these comparisons are being done with a less-than-near-mint original, which isn't fair. It took a lot of work but I have a few near-mint Van Gelder originals that sound fantastic. At the same time, I'm suspicious that most people who have casually tried out a few originals have never heard a truly near-mint Van Gelder original (specifically from 1957 or later). Finally, even if Van Gelder's originals in some way don't approach the 'accuracy' of modern reissues done by companies like Music Matters, that doesn't necessarily mean that the original pressing listening experience is void of value, nor does it even mean it's necessarily less desirable (whether or not it's worth thousands of dollars, however, is certainly open to debate). In a lot of instances, it's a very different listening experience. It's not as 'accurate' as a modern reissue, but it has a unique flavor and character, which is pleasing to a lot of individuals including myself. I think both listening experiences have their own unique qualities. 100% in agreement with you on all points.
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Post by Rich on Jun 17, 2015 13:51:39 GMT
All I can say about the MM33s - and I have sung their praises elsewhere here on numerous occasions - is that they sound better than any other version I have owned of the same music, *not* including Blue Note originals, because other than a couple of late BN Liberty issues I don't have any 'originals'... I didn't buy Bud Powell/THE SCENE CHANGES because I had just picked up a decent CD for a few quid and decided to stick with that. And I didn't buy BLUE HOUR because to be perfectly honest it's a record that has bored me sometimes in the past, and the cheap reissue i did have i didn't keep. I may be tempted again, i suppose, but i sampled some of it online and concluded it was one i could live without. The sleeve has always outdone the contents - but that's just my personal opinion, of course. On the other other hand, Parlan/SPEAKIN MY PIECE, which i did just buy, and which i thought was probably going to be a record that appealed only moderately to me, turned out to be terrific - and to sound glorious, of course. As for whether the MM33s are better or worse with Steve Hoffman, I really don't care. Life is too short to worry much about the bruised egos of complete strangers, so i don't. Similarly, if the worst that ever happens is getting banned - or disliked - on an internet chat forum...again, life is too short. And with all due deference to LJC and what he has built up here and over on the main website, i don't really think it is a free speech crusade or a courageous stand for personal liberty -- it's just plain old-fashioned, grown-up, civilised behaviour... No less commendable for all that, of course... This is the first chance I've had to peek in over here in a while... Alun, when I say "free speech" I mean just what you describe "it's just plain old-fashioned, grown-up, civilised behaviour...", well put. On Blue Hour and The Scene Changes, I have a feeling if you hear the MM33 pressings your appreciation for both records is likely to go up. On Hoffman: I don't habor any ill will toward the man and neither does my friend. But I'm not likely to avoid bringing his name up if it is pertinent to a particular topic of interest to me. For good or worse he is a part of the Music Matters Blue Note lore. I find it perturbing when people make a federal case out of any criticism leveled at him. You are quite right, the MM Blue Note reissues are better without Hoffman, they are better cause all the mastering duties are now handled by Kevin Grey and Ron Rambach two individuals who do not think they are smarter than RVG, two people who appreciate what's on those master tapes. The proof of all this is in the pudding. If my saying this is annoyance to anyone...well, there's nothing I can do to help it. For what it's worth, I have Music Matters 45 RPM copies of The Opener and Candy, both mastered by Hoffman apparently, and I think both sound great...to each his/her own.
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Post by Spencer on Jun 17, 2015 16:26:54 GMT
This is the first chance I've had to peek in over here in a while... Alun, when I say "free speech" I mean just what you describe "it's just plain old-fashioned, grown-up, civilised behaviour...", well put. On Blue Hour and The Scene Changes, I have a feeling if you hear the MM33 pressings your appreciation for both records is likely to go up. On Hoffman: I don't habor any ill will toward the man and neither does my friend. But I'm not likely to avoid bringing his name up if it is pertinent to a particular topic of interest to me. For good or worse he is a part of the Music Matters Blue Note lore. I find it perturbing when people make a federal case out of any criticism leveled at him. You are quite right, the MM Blue Note reissues are better without Hoffman, they are better cause all the mastering duties are now handled by Kevin Grey and Ron Rambach two individuals who do not think they are smarter than RVG, two people who appreciate what's on those master tapes. The proof of all this is in the pudding. If my saying this is annoyance to anyone...well, there's nothing I can do to help it. For what it's worth, I have Music Matters 45 RPM copies of The Opener and Candy, both mastered by Hoffman apparently, and I think both sound great...to each his/her own. they do sound good, chances are they will sound even better if Gray and Rambach decide to give them a once over. I am really looking fwd to the MM 33rpm presentation of Horace Parlan "Us Three", that was clearly a case where Hoffman's fingers on the EQ dial got carried away and rolled off too much top end on that one. May not be a coincidence that this record was the last one he worked on in the MM 45 series.
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Post by Spencer on Jun 23, 2015 10:31:57 GMT
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Post by Spencer on Jun 23, 2015 10:44:57 GMT
Two new titles from Music Matters Blue Note; though MM previously released a fine 45rpm of Point of Departure, I doubt anyone will be disappointed by the 33rpm. For my money there is more bass on the 33 and the sense of realism is palpable. The instruments are so delineated on this 33 that on some sections of the album I felt like I was hearing new details. Green Street by Grant Green is no slouch either. This is lighthearted fun album with Green and his partners playing and enjoying themselves. The sound is overall balanced and tight.
Word is Kevin Gray has tweaked his system once again. Not cables this time but his front end.
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Post by alunsevern on Jun 25, 2015 18:29:56 GMT
Hill's POINT OF DEPARTURE is a must, from my perspective. It's a great Andrew Hill record and as important in its way as Dolphy's OUT TO LUNCH. I think Andrew Hill, Dolphy, Grachan Moncur, Sam Rivers, Bobby Hutcherson all showed where jazz could be taken without forsaking 'swing'. In my book, theirs are amongst the greatest Blue Notes -- head and shoulders above some of the (do excuse me) more formulaic offerings of hard bop... And i only have a Pathe Marconi French issue of POINT OF DEPARTURE, so the new MM33 almost can't help but be a significant improvement!
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