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Post by bassman on Dec 1, 2020 12:07:04 GMT
I bought a considerable number of vinyl records in years long past. But I wouldn't call myself a vinyl collector, so my experience is limited. In recent years I have occasionally bought vinyl on Discogs, mostly because the things I wanted were not available otherwise, e.g. the stereo versions of Mulligan's "Reunion With Chet Baker" (stereo masters lost) and of "Ellington At Newport 1958" (i.e. the studio tracks). My buying experience has mostly been a mixed pleasure. Dealers often don't care to grade their material but give a NM grading to the most beat up disc, granting refunds if you withdraw a negative rating. That's what most customers seem to be willing to do. I know I did. After all, you don't want to spoil your own customer rating, do you? As a result, grading information is becoming unreliable, and so is dealer rating. "100% positive" tells you absolutely nothing about the dealer, unless you plough through hundreds of comments. If a dealer has "99% positive", it really pays off to look at the negative ones because that's where the truth is told.
My question to dedicated vinyl collectors: What's your take? Am I being subjective, unfair?
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Post by gregorythefish on Dec 1, 2020 17:03:51 GMT
i sell quite a bit on discogs. i buy very little. there's your answer.
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Post by Doom Girl on Dec 1, 2020 19:09:22 GMT
If a dealer has "99% positive", it really pays off to look at the negative ones because that's where the truth is told. This is where I look on all e-tail sites |
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Post by Martin on Dec 2, 2020 11:21:40 GMT
On reviewing my Discogs history, I see that I've only *officially* bought four records on Discogs since 2015. All successful deals and, in a couple of cases, exceptional bargains - particularly a lovely copy of a mono first pressing of "Chet Baker In New York". You can see details on my blog here: into-somethin.blog/2016/03/28/chet-baker-in-new-york-riverside-rlp-12-281/I have also done a couple of "off the books" deals with Discogs sellers where I was able to negotiate better prices by buying multiple records at a time and working with the seller to avoid Discogs fees. I must issue a caveat emptor warning about following my lead on this practice: by doing so you risk losing any of the legal protections and methods of redress offered by Discogs. I've only ever done this kind of deal with people who I know and trust. I can offer some general observations from my own experiences with Discogs: 1). There are bargains/high quality deals to be had if you do your research and stay patient. 2). Equally, there are many vastly over-priced records on Discogs. Some laughably so. 3). The images shown for each release are NOT of the specific copy of the record offered for sale by the individual Discogs seller. I always contact the seller and politely ask them to send me photos of the specific record, labels, sleeve etc and ask questions to confirm detailed information to identify the provenance of the pressing. Genuine sellers are typically more that happy to provide such further information. If you encounter a seller who refuses to send you photos and/or answer questions, I suggest you step away from the deal immediately. 4). I treat the record and sleeve gradings on Discogs with a healthy dose of skepticism - that's not necessarily the fault of the sellers because Discogs' range of possible gradings is not particularly granular. 5). I also treat the feedback scores with some skepticism. As you noted, a few negative comments can be considerably ore revealing than many positive ones (I think this applies to other marketplaces like eBay too). 6). Check on the seller's returns policy. If it's good, then you may feel able to take a risk on a purchase that you might not otherwise go for. 7). Do your research so you know how to identify pressings correctly - if you're unsure, there's a lot of friendly expertise on this forum that will willingly help you. My final thought is, as in all financial transactions, things can sometimes go wrong. If that happens, I find that remaining polite and respectful is usually the most efficient route to a satisfactory resolution. I've only had one such experience on Discogs when I bought a copy of Lee Morgan's Search For The New Land which the seller assured me had Plastylite "P"s in the deadwax. When it arrived, that turned out not to be the case. In this instance, I don't believe the seller was lying - it was more a case of the seller's lack of knowledge. So I politely explained the error and used it as an opportunity to educate the seller by sending him examples. A full refund followed swiftly. |
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Post by bassman on Dec 2, 2020 13:14:03 GMT
Martin, I am happy to have triggered your response. I am sure your expert advice will be of great help to anyone who seriously wants to get started with vinyl collecting. And for those who still don't know Martin's Blog: It's highly recommended!
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Post by Martin on Dec 2, 2020 16:55:17 GMT
It's very kind of you to recommend my blog bassman. Thank you. I really ought to post there more frequently.
I'm not sure I can claim "expert" status - there just happen to be some niches that I've researched and discovered a lot about. I'm reminded of the expression made well-known by Isaac Newton: "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants". There are many people who have done much spadework from which I have benefited, so it seems only right to pass that forward to more people if I can.
Of course, many areas remain closed books to me. I'm clueless about Sun Ra's discography for example. And I'm certainly the wrong person to ask about ESP-Disk. But I know there are other members of this forum who can help with topics like those.
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Post by alunsevern on Dec 23, 2020 10:45:55 GMT
Baseman, I have probably only bought a dozen or so records on discogs and like Martin the majority were ‘off the books’ deals where I bought a number of things from a seller usually with a modest discount. None of these were expensive items — just relatively obscure and/or hard to find. Maybe I was lucky but all were as described. I generally only look for or buy records graded NM on the basis that if it doesn’t meet the grade there is little room for argument/interpretation. But on balance I dislike discogs. Its search function is rubbish. I generally don’t trust sellers’ pictures — I have seen too many items using pictures lifted from another seller’s listing. And most of all I dislike the prices — there’s far too much over priced stuff and overall it always looks like a gouger’s paradise. I would go as far as to say that in most cases I would rather do without than buy on discogs.
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Post by Robert Orenstein on Dec 23, 2020 15:29:27 GMT
I happen to live in the "great" Seattle area. The record stores are either gone or consider a 3rd Blue Note pressing "original". The only avenues to feed my crazed jazz vinyl needs after almost 58 years of Jazz listening-collecting are discogs and Ebay. This is only what is left. Any suggestion?
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Post by gregorythefish on Dec 23, 2020 17:00:18 GMT
robert:
keep shopping at those stores! sometimes you get lucky, and besides, we can't lose any more! also, perhaps widening the range would help? we have two solid shops here where i live in delaware, but also if I am willing to make the 45 minute drive into philadelphia, i can find many more great shops.
i find ebay far more reliable than discogs. on discogs, if there is any concern, i always ask sellers to double check all the details i am concerned about.
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Post by Doom Girl on Dec 23, 2020 19:53:51 GMT
In the U.S., Philadelphia has always been a jazz mecca. Closer to Robert in Seattle is Portland Oregon, which has several very good record stores with old jazz vinyl to look through - but in the midst of the pandemic my own in-person searches have come to a halt.
Incidentally, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. Here's hoping for a better year ahead! Be safe....
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Post by Admin on Dec 24, 2020 12:28:24 GMT
A Discogs hint I have found useful - when considering a seller offering, I take a quick look at how they grade the rest of what they are selling. The offer I was considering was graded Near Mint. After checking, they graded every record they were selling as Near Mint. Now it is entirely possible that all these old records are indeed ... Near Mint ... it is possible, just not likely.
Happy listening.
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Post by gregorythefish on Dec 24, 2020 15:45:33 GMT
I bought a collection a few years back where every record was indeed near mint, and I staggered releasing the stuff I wanted to sell just because I thought no one would believe me.
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jazzfromatoz
New Member
A jazz collector who started his journey into jazz in 1972.
Posts: 3
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Post by jazzfromatoz on Jan 23, 2021 21:52:48 GMT
Over the past five years I have bought a lot on Discogs and also sold items occasionally. Most of the sellers have been quick to respond if there's a question about the quality rating of a purchase or damage in the mail. It is very unfair to give a negative rating to a seller without contacting them first to discuss the problem and giving them an opportunity to make a price adjustment or refund. Many sellers want to resolve it, even if it means giving a full refund. Treat others how you would like to be treated if you were in their shoes.
As a Discogs seller, I have had an individual or two who may have substituted another copy of an LP purchased, then claimed the one they bought from me wasn't Near Mint, sending me a photo of an obviously damaged item. I am debating whether to block one such buyer who has made this claim on two different occasions. What got my suspiciions aroused was that the second purchase was a 2 record set that I bought new, played sparingly and graded accurately before I listed it for sale. Yet I was told that this set, which was not all that expensive ($12-13 plus shipping), was all scuffed up. After a series of emails back and forth, I refunded all but $2 and my shipping costs. I may have to start resorting to photographing LPs after inspecting them prior to shipping to protect myself from scammers.
High volume sellers may not be as likely to reply to quality questions, but it never hurts to ask before buying.
One caveat: if you are in the USA, avoid decluttr.com like the plague. They are very erratic about grading due to the high volume of buying that they do, I have had many badly scratched CDs, booklets with writing, water damage, etc., plus booklets in boxed sets missing altogether. When asking for a refund, they generally don't ask that you return the purchase to them unless it is around $9-10 or more, obviously to prevent fraud. They resolved each of my complaints over several years, but my latest issue with them has been their refusal to refund postage for a returned item. To get reimbursed for postage, they require a copy of the postal receipt, which means one has to go to the post office and get the clerk to print two receipts with the tracking number, the second to keep so one can prove the item was delivered. In spite of numerous attempts to get my postage refunded, they have lost a customer of several years and numerous purchases for refusing to credit me a whopping $2.80.
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Post by Rikki Nadir on Mar 23, 2024 1:53:07 GMT
I'm pleased to say my buying experiences on Discogs have been mostly positive. I went through a phase of collecting early original UK punk singles on coloured vinyl where available. Not an easy niche to collect because sleeves are rarely in decent condition - what self-respecting punk in the 1970s would have taken great care of their records? But by asking to see clear photos from the sellers I've been able to make mostly very good purchases. However, I prefer to buy CDs when it's jazz and soundtrack, and I'm prepared to pay extra to get mint condition and where possible sealed items.
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