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Post by alunsevern on Mar 25, 2015 18:04:20 GMT
HI Greg, Django -- on Ace of Clubs, I think the label was called -- was amongst the first of my jazz purchases. That would be about 1970, I think. Money was short, I was still at school -- and, I can now see, almost jaw-droppingly ignorant. But I was keen to experiment. I bought Bird on the Verve/Metro label -- cheap reissues of the famous Verve complete series. Django, as I say, on Ace of Clubs (the Treasury Series, I think it was called). Billie Holiday (when I thought I still liked singing) on Verve (again a cheap reissue series in twelve volumes, I think). I also bought things I now shudder to think of it -- primarily driven by their availability on cheap reissue labels. The World of George Melly on the Decca 'World Of' series, for instance. John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers -- hardly jazz, but again they are on the Decca 'World Of' series and I suppose at that time were probably less a pound (GBP 1.00). Bartok string quartets -- they were on the Saga label, played by the Fine Arts Quartet. They were even cheaper, I recall, but even to my ears, on my clapped out equipment, they were atrocious pressings.
Some of these interests have fallen by the wayside; others -- Django -- have been substantially added to over the years.
But my point is that those early forays into record collecting -- even when we are driven almost entirely by price (and healthy curiosity) -- hold a special place in our hearts. They do in mine, anyway. And if I want to listen to Django -- as I may tonight, after your post -- it is almost certainly one of that Ace of Clubs series that I will pull out. Even now, forty-five years (or whatever it is) later, those covers still give me a rush of nostalgia. I remember sitting in front of the very old-fashioned gas fire in my bedroom, playing Django to my younger brother (one of the few occasions when we tried to have a fraternal relationship rather than fight), trying to explain to him who Django was, and when he had lived, and why his music was important...
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Post by dottorjazz on Mar 25, 2015 20:50:56 GMT
I'm back home from a week in San Francisco, my only listening was on the plane, but...I visited some shops in the Bay Area and got some nice records, strictly mono. Blue Note, mission impossible, only some later Jimmy Smith or Turrentine. the most curious is a 7" 1964 recording of pianist Francois Tusques with Don Cherry on trumpet. I've not listened to anyone yet. three will substitute stereo or second pressings, Sheep in San Francisco, Davis' Quiet Nights, George Russell's The Jazz Workshop. The others are: Gary Burton, Something's Coming, The Birdland Allstars On Tour with Al Cohn, Phil Woods and a misspelled Kenny DURHAM, McKusick with four cellos ( ), Cohn-Perkins-Kamuca, The Brothers, The Four Brothers Together Again on Vik (with Serge Chaloff), Sam Most Sextette on Bethlehem, Billy Taylor Uptown on Riverside, Joe Puma Jazz on Jubilee and, thanks to Aaron's suggestion, Miles Davis Quartet on Prestige 161. here they are:
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Post by gregorythefish on Mar 26, 2015 16:22:29 GMT
alun, i've only been collecting seriously for two or three years and i already have albums like that. my first "RARE" purchase, my first records i loved to listen to, etc. great to know the memories will stick with me. dott, that miles 10'' is a top-wanted item for me. very nice! if I am reading the price sticker correctly, you got a nice deal on it, too! more recent listening to nice original pressings from the recent 'score', as it were: Art Farmer Quintet featuring Gigi Gryce, Volume 2 (10'', Prestige 209): Oh man, this sounds so good. It is hard to find info about this, as it seems that it was reissued twice, first with a different cover on 12'', and then as part of "When Farmer Met Gryce". But I love it, and it plays crisp and clear. The Eminent Jay Jay Johnson, Volume 2 (10'', Blue Note 5057): The owner of these records seems to have been really into the second volume of various collections. Odd. But they are great, and this is no exception. Early JJ, playing with a lot of fire before he started digging in with Kai. This will definitely be a favorite. Lee Konitz with Warne Marsh, Atlantic 1217 (12''): I am sometimes skeptical of all these geeky looking white dudes in my jazz, but I try always to just listen, and this did not disappoint. The interplay is awesome and loose, hinting at breaking the confines of cool/bop back in 1955. Johnny Smith Quintet, Jazz at NBC (10'', Roost 410): This was 'thrown in' to seal the deal I was trying to make, and I know nothing really about it other than that it features Johnny Smith in a quintet with Stan Getz, whose whisper-playing tends to drive me absolutely insane, but the very cool, relaxed atmosphere here is the perfect place for him, and Johnny is clearly a master of the guitar. This one will get heavy rotation as well. And now to watch a little TV with my roommate before work.
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Post by alunsevern on Mar 27, 2015 12:58:57 GMT
Dott, To have found a mono Shepp Live in SF, *in* SF, is no mean feat! Congratulations. That and the Russell are the pick of the bunch, I reckon, and I will happily take them off your hands if you become bored with them
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Post by gregorythefish on Mar 27, 2015 15:26:28 GMT
alun, archie shepp in san fransisco is not terribly hard to find as an original in nice condition. i got mine for a song! am i not grasping the significance of the "IN" part?
VERY EXCITING LISTENING TODAY:
My lovely lady recently told me she got a great deal on a great thing, but refused to tell me what it is. We are a bit of a pair, and she collects older historical items dealing with consumerism and fashion, such as 1940's mannequins, antique furniture, etc. I thought she had purchased something like that, which is always fun, but lo and behold she came home with an ORIGINAL PRESSING of one of my most wanted records! she remembered me talking about it and how it was way outside my price range, and happened upon it in great condition for a ludicrously good price during an antiquing trip.
So today I will be enjoying an NM original NYC pressing, with the RVG stamp, of...
John Coltrane, Frank Wess, Paul Quinichette, etc - "Wheelin' & Dealin'"!
I only have a small handful of records of this caliber, and this is the tops for sure. Ain't she the best?
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Post by dottorjazz on Mar 27, 2015 21:16:15 GMT
Alun: couldn't listen to my new records yet but it's likely I'll have a stereo Shepp in San Francisco and a second issue (1962) of George Russell to trade, bought last month. GTF: to my surprise, all records had a nice price, between 8 and 40 bucks. the only one with higher price was Prestige 161, anyway affordable (120 $). great family history for your W&D, now's your turn towards your wife... what about an original 40's-50?s artifact as one shown here under?
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Post by gregorythefish on Mar 27, 2015 22:48:57 GMT
alun, i just got that *in* SF thing. i am a goofball. goodness.
dott: that story will bore the future kids someday, i'm sure. we are not married, i fear, but are planning on it once we both settle into our grad studies. and those artifacts would be great for me, but while enjoys jazz and regularly listens with me, the collecting side of jazz is not really what she's into. that's all me. hmm... now i need to go shopping for some weird mannequins or some 1920's advice literature to make it even. perhaps a mounted 26-point elk skull? yes we own all of those things. our apartment is... colorful.
W&D was thoroughly enjoyed. It plays NM. I am thrilled.
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Post by alunsevern on Mar 28, 2015 11:01:42 GMT
alun, i just got that *in* SF thing. i am a goofball. Goodness. There you go -- I thought the penny would drop soon Saturday - and as I sort of promised myself, I've been playing Django and the QHCF - first an HMV recording issued in the late-60s called THE ART OF DJANGO, with sleeve notes by Alexis Korner, no less; and then one of the Ace of Clubs series. And now for something completely different, as they say -- THIS IS OUR MUSIC, Ornette Coleman, on a really nice stereo original that I picked up almost by accident for a few pounds. The dealer I bought it from said when he sold it to me that he'd had it stock for ages and hadn't registered that it was a first... Your good fortune, he said, through gritted teeth (actually, I don't think he minded too much, really). Still, I was pleased -- i don't really have all that many originals and don't usually shop specifically for originals (I'm generally happy with 'early' as opposed to first), and I certainly don't normally find them at bargain prices. Greg -- your partner buys you first pressings?! Dott -- I'm always fascinated by others' buying habits (and budgets, if I'm perfectly honest) and therefore interested to see you class $120 as "affordable". Good man. Beauty is a Rare Thing -- one of my favourite Ornette tracks -- is now playing... And then the first side of Dolphy's OUT TO LUNCH on the new Music Matters 33 (new at least in the UK: I think the US copies have been available since late last year). It still sounds glorious -- the best I have ever heard. This record sound on LP. And now a real obscurity: SZABRAXTANDOS -- Anthony Braxton (clarinet and alto) and Gyorgy Szabados (piano) recorded together in 1984 on the Hungarian Krem label. This is much closer to twentieth century classical music than it is jazz, but it is still excellent. Recorded well with great immediacy and fidelity to the instruments, it repays close listening. Mine has inside the sleeve what I imagine might be either a receipt or possibly some kind of chit to enable one to queue and pay...
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Post by DobermanBoston on Mar 28, 2015 21:26:20 GMT
This one. It's by the late drummer Masahiko Togashi. Though Togashi became paraplegic in an accident, he devised a Robert Wyatt-like mechanical system so he could still play a trap kit using just his hands. Steve Lacy really shines on it. The version of "The Door" they do here is better than his own.
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Post by dottorjazz on Mar 28, 2015 21:38:45 GMT
Alun, since I was a teenager, I've spent all my tips in records. the first I bought was a 7" pop single that I liked to dance (!!!) with my girlfriends. it was 1964 and I was 11. then I was interested in rock, Beatles, Hendrix, Stones up to Genesis, King Crimson, Van Der Graaf Generator, Gentle Giant, Led Zeppelin. in 1968 I discovered Jazz and my old rock appeal vanished. as I've been accustomed by my parents to travel very early, I used to bring back home a lot of records, records only. I wasn't interested in anything else. there were no books at the time, no internet, no way to know what was going on except radio and record shops. I used to go everyday, looking and listening. so I began to collect spending all my money in records. it wasn't much but I could buy one or two LP's a week. none was original then. I began looking for first pressings in the mid seventies. prices weren't high: I was in contact with many sellers around the world and got their auctions by mail. it was wonderful when a parcel arrived. awful when it didn't but happened only once. I had won both Mingus' Period 10". still missing... so, step by step, I've built my collection that's not so extensive, around 1000. I was very careful in looking for the best copy possible and still am. I substitute any unperfect copy with a better one. to reach my current NM Saxophone Colossus I have spent decades changing my old Prestige 70's reissue at least 5 or 6 times. what I've clearly stated in my mind is what I would like to pay for a given record. my rules: 1) NO record is impossible to find. 2) I can live well even if I don't buy THAT one if the price is out of my reach. ok, my reach is wide enough but I'm no fool. 3) I try to know market prices well: prices have always gone up and down. Blue Notes are over priced now, especially if related to rarity. as I do not keep records I don't love for any reason, I sell or trade them. I've got a friend who lives far from me but when he comes to Milano usually buys almost everything I've for sale. 120 $ for an original 10" Prestige by one of my favorite players is too much? I looked at it and got it, didn't think twice. any price could be too much for a given record if my interest is not so high. higher the interest, higher the price I can pay BUT I know my limits well.
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Post by DobermanBoston on Mar 28, 2015 21:40:42 GMT
On to this. Pianist Joe Knight being just as unsung as Gee himself, but some bigger names like Wilbur Ware, Art Taylor, and (sometimes) Cecil Payne too.
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Post by gregorythefish on Mar 28, 2015 21:52:14 GMT
alun: well, sometimes for birthdays or holidays i receive a little record money, but this is the first time she has outright bought a record for me for little to no reason. i'm very impressed that she knew what to look for to ensure its originality! she's a keeper for a variety of other reasons, as well. how does anyone else's partner/spouse/significant other react to the habit/hobby/obsession? let's have some stories! as far as dott finding $120 to be "affordable", i think it depends on a few factors. given the rarity of that album, and the fact that it was presumably in very nice condition, i think that's an "affordable" price for that album. i would not be buying it, but then again i am still on a the budget of a youngster finding a career. if i had the spare scratch, i'd happily pay $120 for that record. i have a few ornette originals. ornette was the first jazz artist i really gravitated towards. i also have a second pressing of "the shape of jazz to come" for sale or trade, if anyone is interested. out to lunch is SO good. one of my favorites. Szabraxtandos sounds interesting. i might look it up. so far today: the lady and i are sitting in the living room and enjoying several albums while we do our respective work. -first was "jazz for playboys", featuring frank wess, kenny burrell, ed thigpen, and others on savoy. freddie green, of count basie fame, plays rhythm guitar on this, which adds a neat touch. -then we played donald byrd/gigi gryce "jazz lab" on columbia. this is a favorite of mine, especially for the awesome variations on "somewhere over the rainbow" which really jazz it up and make it a nice artistic piece. -next, an interesting experiment. we listened to "miles davis and the modern jazz giants" on prestige, which i remarked sounded quite nice the one time i accidentally played part of it at 45rpm. so then we listened to the whole thing at 45rpm as well. quite an interesting listen, as miles and milt tend to play low enough that you barely notice. it becomes a totally different, upbeat album. -in my quest to own originals of the entire impulse collection, I’ve been surprised by how much I enjoy some otherwise corny albums. Chico o’ farrill’s “nine flags” album, essentially a cologne ad, is actually a fairly enjoyable listen featuring some great hard bop players in a big ban setting. Art farmer, clark terry, jj Johnson, urbie green, Julius Watkins, frank wess, and others are are featured. The concept is stupid, but the music is actually quite nice. Not super amazing, but enjoyable. And another impulse hole is filled. because of the fascinating implications for historians of culture and consumerism, the better half really enjoys this one. and now it is time for dinner and such.
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Post by Martin on Mar 29, 2015 7:20:52 GMT
I have the house to myself this weekend with the rest of the family away, so there's the opportunity for more listening than usual. I kicked off with some organ grooves in the shape of Richard Holmes/Gene Ammons - Grooving with Jug (Pacific Jazz ST-32). Then I switched to the vibes with two Bobby Hutchersons: Total Eclipse (BNST-84291) features Hutcherson's empathetic partnership with Harold Land and Stick Up! (BNST-84244) which is a fantastic LP and the one that first turned me on to Hutchersons over 20 years ago. Great line up with Joe Henderson, McCoy Tuner and Billy Higgins; fantastic tunes and top notch recording by Rudy Van Gelder. Difficult to decide what will come next...
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Post by alunsevern on Mar 30, 2015 11:29:05 GMT
Dott,
I shall (metaphorically, at any rate) write your three rules on sheets of flip-chart paper and stick them above my desk!
>>1) NO record is impossible to find. >>2) I can live well even if I don't buy THAT one if the price is out of my reach. ok, my reach is wide enough but I'm no fool. >>3) I try to know market prices well: prices have always gone up and down. Blue Notes are over priced now, especially if related to rarity. >>as I do not keep records I don't love for any reason, I sell or trade them.
I agree entirely.
Doberman -- 'Voices' looks interesting. I have come to like Steve Lacy but found him something of an acquired taste. Initially I remember fining his tone (and instrument) somewhat astringent and demanding, but now I love it. Not that I have much, I hasten to add.
Greg -- playing Miles & Milt at 45rpm?! Actually, I must remember try that as it's a record I do have...
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Post by gregorythefish on Mar 30, 2015 14:28:18 GMT
alun: i did it by accident awhile ago but it took a few seconds for me to realize. the whole album that way is quite a treat. of course, during the famous chatter where monk forgets to come in, the illusion is destroyed.
i like dott's rules, except that i also think there is value in collecting for historical significance. i want to collect the entire mode and impulse catalogs for a few reasons, and i think just about any NYC prestige or pre-liberty blue note is worth owning if the price is right. i also plan to do new jazz and candid someday if i have the funds. i rarely sell or trade records i only have one copy of, but then again i tend to enjoy them to a certain extent based on the history alone.
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