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Post by Rich on Jul 7, 2016 6:20:38 GMT
Hi Martin, I think the Roach-Brown quintet stuff is fantastic. I really love how Brown and Land sound together on Study in Brown, so this is the one I went for. I learned about this music in general from owning the EmArcy 10-CD box set from back in the 90s. Because I didn't feel like spending $100 on an original, and because I really enjoy a lot of the Blue Note reissues in terms of sound, I thought that maybe I could get a reissue for a lot cheaper. I did, but it was probably a mistake in this case. The Study In Brown I have has a blue label with "Mercury" inside an oval, but no drummer. I'm guessing this is a 60's pressing. Unfortunately, my copy has pretty bad groove distortion, but because I have a mono cartridge I thought I could live with this (for the semi-reasonable price, and the cover looks great). True, the distortion is much improved with the mono cart, and so in one respect this is listenable. However, what I really DON'T like about this pressing is that on side 1, the 3rd and 4th tracks come in at much lower volume, and that needs to be cranked. I just find this really annoying. My deadwax has the following: side 1: MG 36037A MS2 side 2: MG 36037B MS3 My advice is to stay away from this pressing. If I ever have the chance, I would consider an earlier pressing with the original deadwax matrix #. I thought seriously about the Mosaic set, but because I have the CD set, I just couldn't pull the trigger (came close!). Hope this helps, and I'd be curious if anyone can comment further on this pressing I have. -Drew Does your copy have the blue cover? I'm pretty sure the US Mercury label pressing should have the blue cover, and that the other Mercury label pressings with the brownish cover are Japanese pressings. I've never heard the US Mercury pressing but would certainly give it a try (the blue cover turned me off from this pressing for a while but at this point I don't really care what the cover looks like, especially since I've heard both the '70s Japanese reissues and wasn't impressed with either). My guess is the US Mercury label is a '70s pressing...? |
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Post by bopmodalfree on Jul 7, 2016 22:34:41 GMT
Hi Rich, Here are pics of my copy:    It is clearly a later issue but does have deep groove on both sides and the cover is quite nice and laminated. Also, the inner sleeve looks like it's 50's era,but I'm sure this pressing is not from the 50s. I couldn't attach it in this message, but could in another if you like. -Drew |
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joe
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Post by joe on Jul 7, 2016 22:35:25 GMT
I have them all and they are all brilliant. I believe that the large drummer logo (for Brown & Roach 10" and for Brown & Roach Inc.) and small drummer (for all other 12") with silver rim and deep groove are the first labels, and blue print on the back cover for all except Basin Street are the first covers.
If you really want to be completist, you should also include MG 36002 (Jam Session), MG 36039 (Best Coast Jazz), and even MG 36000 (Dinah Jams), as they all feature Brown and Roach.
And also, of course, "Sonny Rollins Plus 4" - yes, it's on Prestige, but it's the same group at the same time as At Basin Street, just done under Sonny's name and leadership as a favor to him.
The later pressings with the oval Mercury / Emarcy Jazz labels with deep groove sound identical to the original Emarcy pressings. They can be a great value.
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Post by bopmodalfree on Jul 8, 2016 14:51:48 GMT
I have them all and they are all brilliant. I believe that the large drummer logo (for Brown & Roach 10" and for Brown & Roach Inc.) and small drummer (for all other 12") with silver rim and deep groove are the first labels, and blue print on the back cover for all except Basin Street are the first covers. If you really want to be completist, you should also include MG 36002 (Jam Session), MG 36039 (Best Coast Jazz), and even MG 36000 (Dinah Jams), as they all feature Brown and Roach. And also, of course, "Sonny Rollins Plus 4" - yes, it's on Prestige, but it's the same group at the same time as At Basin Street, just done under Sonny's name and leadership as a favor to him. The later pressings with the oval Mercury / Emarcy Jazz labels with deep groove sound identical to the original Emarcy pressings. They can be a great value. Hmm, interesting that you say they all sound identical. I've only heard my "oval Mercury" copy on vinyl pictured above, so I can't compare to the original. Out of curiosity from your comment, I listened again to my copy last night to convince myself of my complaint. Indeed, tracks 3 and 4 are at lower volume on side A and just sound quite muffled in comparison with tracks 1 and 2, which sound OK (albeit my copy has groove distortion mostly on these side A tracks). Turning up the volume helps, but this just seems like crappy mastering (or something, I am not an expert on this stuff) and from the deadwax matrix it seems it's from a different master laquer (different mastering, right?), so I would hope the original wouldn't have this defect. The tracks on side B sound great on my copy until the last few tracks, where AGAIN (!) the volume drops lower for the last two tracks. I'm interested if anyone with an original of Study in Brown has these volume/loudness variations. I'm sure these would be rectified in the Mosaic sets. At least I have my CDs.  -Drew |
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Post by Rich on Jul 8, 2016 22:58:31 GMT
Hi Rich, Here are pics of my copy: View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView Attachment It is clearly a later issue but does have deep groove on both sides and the cover is quite nice and laminated. Also, the inner sleeve looks like it's 50's era,but I'm sure this pressing is not from the 50s. I couldn't attach it in this message, but could in another if you like. -Drew Interesting! I never knew there was a blue label Mercury issue of this with the original brown-tinted cover. I was referring to this version, which also has a blue Mercury label but a blue-tinted cover for some reason: www.popsike.com/php/detaildata.php?itemnr=281439673576&vdesktop=1VinylBeat.com seems to indicate that that blue Mercury label was in use from about 1957-1963...much earlier than I guessed. I vaguely recall the original I had (well, technically it was a black back so 'second pressing') having the volume issues you're talking about, but that's a problem that can very easily be fixed in mastering (that's what mastering is all about after all) so I wouldn't be surprised if the Mosaic box corrects that. I have the original CD issue and I've never noticed any dramatic volume changes. |
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Post by Rich on Jul 8, 2016 23:03:15 GMT
Also, these blue Mercury label pressings of Study in Brown seem much rarer than the drummer logo pressings. I see those come up much more on the 'Bay, though they also seems to more often than not be in substandard condition for some reason. Those original covers also had poor lamination that seems more prone to 'bubbling' over time.
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Post by bopmodalfree on Jul 10, 2016 14:34:36 GMT
Interesting that you're guessing '57-'63. Based on this inner sleeve,  I might even guess that it's from the 50's. (It also has that really old, vintage smell, for whatever that's worth.) And maybe that's why there's also a brown cover. I too noticed that OG's of this seem to have bubbling. So this is a nice issue because there is none of that, and I must admit I like this more for the cover and DG than for the sound. However, with some TLC, my copy could improve. I realized that I bought this before I got a VPI 16.5 and I may have never cleaned it with that. So I cleaned it the other night and it does sound better, though definitely not in the league of blue notes. The groove distortion is lessened now so this may become my pet long-term project of play-clean cycles and using a mono cart. The volume problem persists. The most important thing for me is that this is incredible, historic music and it's fun to have this vintage artifact. My CDs are well done so those are great for listening. If I had a choice for vinyl, I would probably go for the Mosaic. |
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Post by bassman on Jul 10, 2016 15:28:57 GMT
Interesting that you're guessing '57-'63. Based on this inner sleeve, I might even guess that it's from the 50's. (It also has that really old, vintage smell, for whatever that's worth.) And maybe that's why there's also a brown cover. I too noticed that OG's of this seem to have bubbling. So this is a nice issue because there is none of that, and I must admit I like this more for the cover and DG than for the sound. However, with some TLC, my copy could improve. I realized that I bought this before I got a VPI 16.5 and I may have never cleaned it with that. So I cleaned it the other night and it does sound better, though definitely not in the league of blue notes. The groove distortion is lessened now so this may become my pet long-term project of play-clean cycles and using a mono cart. The volume problem persists. The most important thing for me is that this is incredible, historic music and it's fun to have this vintage artifact. My CDs are well done so those are great for listening. If I had a choice for vinyl, I would probably go for the Mosaic. It must have been after 1959, because that's when the LP "No Count Sarah" (advertised on the inner sleeve) was first published. |
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Post by gregorythefish on Jul 10, 2016 19:48:19 GMT
I would say it must be CLOSE to 1959, since labels often used unfinished or "soon-to-be-released" artwork on their inner sleeves. Could have been slightly before, if that is in fact the sleeve that came with it.
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