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Post by bassman on Aug 8, 2022 7:51:20 GMT
Spencer, I'm telling you: If you were to digitize your Kevin Gray AAA's you would get the same analog magic that you're hearing now. These things have been discussed so many times over, I don't even care.
Quoting myself again: My vinyl is 100% AAA. Not interested in the current vinyl hype either.
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Post by Spencer on Aug 8, 2022 18:15:39 GMT
Things that you "can't really measure" are things that are nonsense. Then go and listen to any of the mofi Miles Davis reissues and then listen to any AP prestige reissues. If you still type this "nonsense" you wrote I'd say you're not being honest to yourself or to others. Best things in life are often never measurable. Who's the best Chef, best football player, best trumpet player or best looking actress in the history of films; there's no objective way of measuring these questions. This blog and this forum was created to celebrate the immeasurable superiority of vintage jazz pressings over later resissues. I suppose that irony has escaped you. Esoterically speaking of course... |
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Post by Spencer on Aug 8, 2022 18:34:54 GMT
Spencer, I'm telling you: If you were to digitize your Kevin Gray AAA's you would get the same analog magic that you're hearing now. These things have been discussed so many times over, I don't even care. Quoting myself again: My vinyl is 100% AAA. Not interested in the current vinyl hype either. And I'm telling you that dog don't hunt. You sound like Wunderlich in that Esposito botched interview, when he(Wunderlich) makes the biggest whopper ever by claiming the most accurate copy of a master tape is a DSD file. If that was the case Mofi wouldn't have had to deceive their customers for so long would they? They would have scrapped that trademarked "Original Master Recording" banner and replaced it with "Most Accurate DSD File Transfer". BTW, if what you claim is true, then all digitally sourced Blue Note reissues would sound better than all those Rudy fold down monos that collectors are still shelling out $$$ and $$$$ to acquire. But you and I know your claim isn't anywhere near the truth. I'm not not knocking digital but I'm drawing a line in the sand with anyone who claims analog and digital are the same thing. My god what's happened to the world? |
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Post by bassman on Aug 9, 2022 7:01:06 GMT
Spencer, I'm telling you: If you were to digitize your Kevin Gray AAA's you would get the same analog magic that you're hearing now. These things have been discussed so many times over, I don't even care. Quoting myself again: My vinyl is 100% AAA. Not interested in the current vinyl hype either. And I'm telling you that dog don't hunt. You sound like Wunderlich in that Esposito botched interview, when he(Wunderlich) makes the biggest whopper ever by claiming the most accurate copy of a master tape is a DSD file. If that was the case Mofi wouldn't have had to deceive their customers for so long would they? They would have scrapped that trademarked "Original Master Recording" banner and replaced it with "Most Accurate DSD File Transfer". BTW, if what you claim is true, then all digitally sourced Blue Note reissues would sound better than all those Rudy fold down monos that collectors are still shelling out $$$ and $$$$ to acquire. But you and I know your claim isn't anywhere near the truth. I'm not not knocking digital but I'm drawing a line in the sand with anyone who claims analog and digital are the same thing. My god what's happened to the world? MoFi were using DSD because it's the best way to produce decent sound in the subsequent signal chain. This is 2022. Analog tape is used only when customers want analog tape to be used, for religious reasons.
You seem to be the only one who had always known the truth. All the rest of them were shelling out $$$$ for something which - to my mind - was technically the best solution but based on a lie and sold at ridiculous prices. This is what the scandal is all about. They had been lying to their true believers. Do you really think "Most Accurate DSD File Transfer" would have impressed any of them, including yourself?
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Post by bassman on Aug 9, 2022 7:15:46 GMT
Things that you "can't really measure" are things that are nonsense. Then go and listen to any of the mofi Miles Davis reissues and then listen to any AP prestige reissues. If you still type this "nonsense" you wrote I'd say you're not being honest to yourself or to others. Best things in life are often never measurable. Who's the best Chef, best football player, best trumpet player or best looking actress in the history of films; there's no objective way of measuring these questions. This blog and this forum was created to celebrate the immeasurable superiority of vintage jazz pressings over later resissues. I suppose that irony has escaped you. Esoterically speaking of course... "This blog and this forum was created to celebrate the immeasurable superiority of vintage jazz pressings over later reissues." - Some people like vintage jazz pressings just because they are vintage jazz pressings. I do. I can easily do without all that pseudo-scientific audiophile whispering and murmuring. Gregory has a way of putting some things very bluntly, but he's right. Recorded sound is measurable. |
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Post by gst on Aug 9, 2022 10:53:17 GMT
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Post by jazzhead on Aug 9, 2022 11:27:15 GMT
I wouldn't believe a word they say regarding what is and isn't DSD. Another thing, all the record labels that own the original tapes/rights to the albums that MoFi have reissued knew what MoFi were doing. The labels kept very quiet for 11 years about this too. And that has made me think that bassman is more than likely right about the upcoming Blue Train Complete Masters; They are cut from digital. Is there a complete list of albums that MoFi has reissued since 2011? It would be interesting to see all the labels involved. |
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Post by gregorythefish on Aug 9, 2022 13:22:19 GMT
Things that you "can't really measure" are things that are nonsense. Who's the best Chef, best football player, best trumpet player or best looking actress in the history of films; there's no objective way of measuring these questions. There's no objective way to answer questions that do not have objective answers. That's literally my point. |
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Post by bassman on Aug 9, 2022 19:17:27 GMT
They may sound fantastic. But if what we have come to know is true - and I am saying this without any bias in any direction - they would sound even more fantastic in the shape of a CD taken from their digital master. This, at least, should be accepted as undeniable by everyone here. No? |
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Post by bassman on Aug 11, 2022 8:29:48 GMT
Now this makes sense at last!
It's exactly what I (and so many other people) had suspected:
"Various tape stocks (½**, 1**) and speeds (15ips, 30ips) were tried but rejected. There was no way to overcome the noise-floor disadvantages of copying from one analog tape to another. When we tried DSD, it was immediately clear this was a vastly superior method for maximizing information retrieval."
Anathema to all-analog believers, it is a realistic assessment of wow & flutter technology, and the only way to get decent results. Next to come: "But vinyl made from digital sounds so much better than CD!" No problem if you believe it. It's not my problem either, because my own vinyl is 100% AAA.
Edit / post script: The only thing that sounds a bit cheap to me is "Some record label tape vaults changed policy regarding shipment of mastertapes." It does not matter exactly where you copy the mastertape. A copy remains a copy. More tape hiss, more wow & flutter. Don't blame record label tape vaults!
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Post by jazzhead on Aug 11, 2022 9:22:48 GMT
Now this makes sense at last!
It's exactly what I (and so many other people) had suspected:
"Various tape stocks (½**, 1**) and speeds (15ips, 30ips) were tried but rejected. There was no way to overcome the noise-floor disadvantages of copying from one analog tape to another. When we tried DSD, it was immediately clear this was a vastly superior method for maximizing information retrieval."
Anathema to all-analog believers, it is a realistic assessment of wow & flutter technology, and the only way to get decent results. Next to come: "But vinyl made from digital sounds so much better than CD!" No problem if you believe it. It's not my problem either, because my own vinyl is 100% AAA.
Edit / post script: The only thing that sounds a bit cheap to me is "Some record label tape vaults changed policy regarding shipment of mastertapes." It does not matter exactly where you copy the mastertape. A copy remains a copy. More tape hiss, more wow & flutter. Don't blame record label tape vaults!
And the labels knew that MoFi were making digital copies of their tapes and kept quiet. About the noise floor; Michael 45 RPM posted a video a few years ago [Edit: November 2021] where he said of one of MoFi's releases that (paraphrasing here) 'that there's no noise floor. It's like playing a digital file.' I'll try and find it now. |
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Post by jazzhead on Aug 11, 2022 9:37:09 GMT
This video is from November 22, 2021.
When discussing MoFi's Supervinyl release of Iron Butterfly - In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, Michael goes on to say, at around 7:10: "You have significantly more detail and my personal explanation for that is, that you have this black background. No noise floor. It's unbelievable. It's like starting a digital file. There is no background noise."
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Post by jazzhead on Aug 18, 2022 22:43:22 GMT
I've just had a pretty great drunken thought and I'm hoping that the community can help me? I won't need my RVG Edition of Blue Train when The Complete Masters comes out. But I've just had a great MoFi-like idea! What if I make digital to analogue cassettes and flog 'em on ebay for MoFi money? I'll add something like, 'From the original master tapes'. Which they would be! I think? No, they can't be. As they've gone from analogue to digital to cd and then to cassette. Which means? [expletive] knows! Who cares? MONEY! Now I'm wondering if Blue Train ever came out on cassette? More research! It did! Of course it did! www.discogs.com/release/3133105-John-Coltrane-Blue-TrainDCC too! www.dccmuseum.com/wp-content/uploads/covers/46095.jpgI have just one DCC left; Wish by The Cure. The Philips machine is boxed away too. Anyone else waste money on that format? |
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Post by bassman on Aug 19, 2022 7:41:11 GMT
I've just had a pretty great drunken thought and I'm hoping that the community can help me? [ ... ] If I were you, I would make sure it's all AAA. Take your old pre-1980 copy of Blue Train and put it to cassette. Takes a lot of time, but it will pay off. "Get your own handcrafted, all-analog copy NOW!" Hand-signed, numbered, wow and flutter included. Given the times we live in, chances are they'll be selling like hot cakes.
Oh ... it just occurred to me I still have some of those boxes in the attic, containing more of that stuff ... Yippeeee! |
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Post by Meriadoc on Aug 19, 2022 15:27:36 GMT
.....What if I make digital to analogue cassettes and flog 'em on ebay for MoFi money? I'll add something like, 'From the original master tapes'. Which they would be! I think? No, they can't be. As they've gone from analogue to digital to cd and then to cassette. Which means? [expletive] knows! Who cares? MONEY!.... Good idea. I think I still have my cassettes...somewhere. I used to listen to them in my little Corolla - an excellent listening studio. However, unfortunately I never thought to buy jazz albums on cassette. So instead of Coltrane, it'll be Led Zeppelin et al. But you're welcome to them. All guaranteed AAA. |
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