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Post by alunsevern on Aug 28, 2015 17:54:06 GMT
I'm probably closer to you. Fredrik. If it's an LP I love, I'd rather have it on a decent quality vinyl record, preferably old rather than a new reissue, but original/first press almost never. I'll take whatever later pressing offers the best sound, presentation etc. If I can't get a decent pressing regardless of age/vintage, I'll take a CD -- but I'll probably still look out for an LP at some point.
And some things I like just because they're old, unusual and LPs. For example, just yesterday I bought a lovely Barry Altschul record called IRENE (feat. John Surman) on Soul Note, the Italian label. Now I love Soul Note and Black Saint records -- not because they have any great financial or rarity value but because these Italian sister labels did much to keep jazz alive throughout the 1980s and into the early 90s. And the IRENE I found is as new: thirty-two years old but it has been sitting untouched in a warehouse somewhere. Now that will mean little to anyone else. It isn't really "collectable" and it isn't valuable. But that is the kind of collecting that I find *satisfying*!
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Post by Rich on Aug 28, 2015 19:00:44 GMT
For me, the music always comes first, but then I have to get it as a 1st pressing if it's good enough. The albums that are the best and most important to me I will try and get on vinyl. Other ones I have digital files of. I would never buy any album if I don't love the music. I guess some people maybe would consider buying a record just because it's rare, just to have it. But not me. No way. I love the vinyl medium, it's the only way for me. I would feel incomplete if I just had the mp3's and god forbid; cd's. It's so soulless, plastic. Fredrik, I have always appreciated that you know what you like, and that you never feel the need to apologize to anyone about it. You have made an impression on me as a collector in that way. For me, that means being okay with the fact that I will probably never pass up an opportunity to 'upgrade' a record in my collection, that comparing and contrasting copies will always be an integral part of my collecting experience, because unlike digital (more like snowflakes), no two records are alike, and the sound of each record has its own flavor, which is truly a beautiful thing!
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Fredrik
Junior Member
fwrarejazzvinylcollector.com
Posts: 61
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Post by Fredrik on Aug 28, 2015 19:23:07 GMT
Rich, that's right. And if one copy has a little pop, then that's the only one in the world that has that pop in that specific spot and that's the organic, primitive and beautiful thing about vinyl. It's like a box of chocolate, you never know what you're gonna get, right? When I get a record home for the first time, it's truly exciting to find out what the cover feels and looks like and most importantly, what the vinyl sounds like and what little flaws, if any, will be revealed. I'm as picky as you, and that's what makes this hobby so difficult, but also so exciting. To seek out those few copies that are still in such great condition.
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Post by gst on Aug 31, 2015 16:54:18 GMT
Guess I’m a bit different from everyone else who has posted as I don’t really have many rules when collecting records other than it has to be good music with sound equaling or better than its digital counterpart (I suppose if I really like the cover art I would buy the record).
•What do you think constitutes a 'large' collection? – Anything over 5,000? Really hard to say. I could never see owning 5,000 records let alone 5,000 jazz records. I have about 1,500 records of various genres.
•Is there a number that is 'too many'? - I suppose not if you have the space/money. I know after a certain point you wouldn’t be able to listen to everything, but it seems to me that the hunt as well as just physically handling a record could be enough for some folks.
•Would you ever dispose of records simply because you had run out of space? – Yes. I’ve actually sold off more records than I’ve bought recently. I realized I had too many records that didn’t sound any better than their digital (i.e. Spotify) counterparts.
•Do you have ever utterly unbreakable rules in your collecting, such as no reissues under any circumstances? – No as I can’t afford originals of everything I want and some reissues are better sounding and come in better packaging than the originals (i.e. MFSL of 70’s and beyond pop records). Although, I have been replacing some of my reissues with originals recently.
•Do you have a price limit? – Depends on the day, but I’d say around $750 for something I really wanted (anyone have an original NM Saxophone Colossus they want to get rid of?).
•Do you only collect jazz? – Although I have records from every genre (yes even rap and country), I would say I’m willing to spend more money on original jazz or blues records than anything else.
•Can you foresee a time when you won't collect? - Anything is possible as I get older.
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Post by Rich on Aug 31, 2015 23:09:02 GMT
Guess I’m a bit different from everyone else who has posted as I don’t really have many rules when collecting records other than it has to be good music with sound equaling or better than its digital counterpart (I suppose if I really like the cover art I would buy the record). •What do you think constitutes a 'large' collection? – Anything over 5,000? Really hard to say. I could never see owning 5,000 records let alone 5,000 jazz records. I have about 1,500 records of various genres. •Is there a number that is 'too many'? - I suppose not if you have the space/money. I know after a certain point you wouldn’t be able to listen to everything, but it seems to me that the hunt as well as just physically handling a record could be enough for some folks. •Would you ever dispose of records simply because you had run out of space? – Yes. I’ve actually sold off more records than I’ve bought recently. I realized I had too many records that didn’t sound any better than their digital (i.e. Spotify) counterparts. •Do you have ever utterly unbreakable rules in your collecting, such as no reissues under any circumstances? – No as I can’t afford originals of everything I want and some reissues are better sounding and come in better packaging than the originals (i.e. MFSL of 70’s and beyond pop records). Although, I have been replacing some of my reissues with originals recently. •Do you have a price limit? – Depends on the day, but I’d say around $750 for something I really wanted (anyone have an original NM Saxophone Colossus they want to get rid of?). •Do you only collect jazz? – Although I have records from every genre (yes even rap and country), I would say I’m willing to spend more money on original jazz or blues records than anything else. •Can you foresee a time when you won't collect? - Anything is possible as I get older. I agree that reissues, be they vinyl or digital, can sound more 'accurate' than originals if we're imagining what the master tape might sound like ('different' is probably a better choice of a descriptor). But good luck finding a NM original of Saxophone Colossus for $750. From what I've seen, I'd think you'd be looking at more like double that for a truly NM copy.
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Post by gregorythefish on Aug 31, 2015 23:18:15 GMT
Rich, Perhaps what you are is a *music* collector rather than a record collector per se. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It may seem a subtle distinction but given what you said about the music being the most important thing, and the supremacy of digital for convenience and (in some cases, anyway) fidelity, being a music collector seems to describe you more accurately. Do it and be happy, I say... OOOOOFFFFFF Now that I am done with my week of moving and getting used to teaching freshman, I can get back to what life is all about: music! I used to consider myself a "music" collector. But I think many people are music collectors. My hard drive (external, 2TB) is nearly filled with wonderful music of almost all varieties. About half of it is jazz. I must confess I am listening to Björk right now, though. I listen to music when driving, all throughout my apartment, in my office, and anywhere else I can. I still do, but once I bought my first real collectible jazz record (an Ayler Impulse, "The Last Album"), I was hooked on RECORD collecting. Frederik and some others have already done a great job of describing the motivations for this, which often feel intangible, but are nonetheless important. I would like to add about Al and Jazz Collector, however, that Al isn't really a big money fellow as some of you seem to think. He never pays anywhere near top dollar for his records, and having met him, is a swell and reasonable guy. I've even purchased a few nice collectibles from him and have found his prices VERY reasonable and his grading flawless. He does like to report on top-dollar eBay auctions, though. And that isn't my favorite thing. But I learn a LOT from him.
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Post by gregorythefish on Aug 31, 2015 23:36:07 GMT
•What do you think constitutes a 'large' collection? – It isn't a number. It's if you enjoy and treasure your collection. If it burdens you, it's too big.
•Is there a number that is 'too many'? - see above
•Would you ever dispose of records simply because you had run out of space? – Yes. I mean, if I've truly run out... what choice is there?
•Do you have ever utterly unbreakable rules in your collecting, such as no reissues under any circumstances? – Yes, but I accidentally break the rules from time to time. I try to only collect originals but I sometimes fool myself. "Finger Poppin'" with the (R) was a sad realisation. But a russian collector seemed very happy to purchase it for a lot more than i paid to get it, so yay!
•Do you have a price limit? – Not really, but I feel my collection is of amazing quality given what I have paid for it. My most expensive record was $113 unless you count the $125 record my wonderful lady gave me as a gift. And after those it slopes down quickly. My VG++ Lexington "6 pieces of silver" (cover AND labels) was only $18! That's a good story.
•Do you only collect jazz? – Although I have records from every genre (yes even rap and country), I would say I’m willing to spend more money on original jazz or blues records than anything else. (this was the last answer and i agree and left it in). I would add that my collections is about 5/6 jazz, and the rest is mostly punk and metal with maybe 30 or so from other genres.
•Can you foresee a time when you won't collect? - when i'm effing dead.
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Post by Rich on Sept 1, 2015 2:52:04 GMT
Rich, Perhaps what you are is a *music* collector rather than a record collector per se. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It may seem a subtle distinction but given what you said about the music being the most important thing, and the supremacy of digital for convenience and (in some cases, anyway) fidelity, being a music collector seems to describe you more accurately. Do it and be happy, I say... OOOOOFFFFFF Now that I am done with my week of moving and getting used to teaching freshman, I can get back to what life is all about: music! I used to consider myself a "music" collector. But I think many people are music collectors. My hard drive (external, 2TB) is nearly filled with wonderful music of almost all varieties. About half of it is jazz. I must confess I am listening to Björk right now, though. I listen to music when driving, all throughout my apartment, in my office, and anywhere else I can. I still do, but once I bought my first real collectible jazz record (an Ayler Impulse, "The Last Album"), I was hooked on RECORD collecting. Frederik and some others have already done a great job of describing the motivations for this, which often feel intangible, but are nonetheless important. I would like to add about Al and Jazz Collector, however, that Al isn't really a big money fellow as some of you seem to think. He never pays anywhere near top dollar for his records, and having met him, is a swell and reasonable guy. I've even purchased a few nice collectibles from him and have found his prices VERY reasonable and his grading flawless. He does like to report on top-dollar eBay auctions, though. And that isn't my favorite thing. But I learn a LOT from him. I've had a similar positive experience with Al, Greg. But take the Baltimore collection for example. According to his article, Al gave the owner's heir a fair price. What is a fair price for that colossal mammoth monster of a collection? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfv23cgxYgk) It all looks near mint. The last thing I want to do is gossip, but I went through that video pausing as I went along and the market value on that collection is at least $35,000...thirty...five...thousand...dollars.
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Post by alunsevern on Sept 1, 2015 8:23:02 GMT
Greg, Rich -- don't get me wrong: I'm not knocking Jazz Collector. Al always comes across a gentleman (and finding gentlemen on the internet is like looking for, er, hens' teeth) and I'm sure that's just what he is. But the site is by and large about high-end collecting and there is a general buzz -- albeit not from Al -- of "I wouldn't-pay-that-much-I'd-pay-this-much", which frankly gets a bit dull. I prefer the more modest, open, inclusive atmosphere of LJC, personally.
Anyway, back to the records I was talking about at the weekend. Four Pieces: Girgio Gaslini and Anthony Braxton; Barry Althschul's IRENE; Donald Byrd, SLOW DRAG on Blue Note/Liberty; FIVE PIECES 1975, Anthony Braxton; INSIDE JOB, Roswell Rudd.
I think the most expensive of these was GBP15.00. But they have already given me so much pleasure. They look great, they sound marvellous (the Roswell Rudd, recorded live in Sam Rivers' RivBea loft-studio is superbly engineered!), they're good performances.
This is the kind of collecting that gives me pleasure -- the somewhat obscure, in terrific condition, at excellent prices. When my regular dealer packs up, so will I in all likelihood...
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Post by gst on Sept 1, 2015 14:05:45 GMT
But good luck finding a NM original of Saxophone Colossus for $750. From what I've seen, I'd think you'd be looking at more like double that for a truly NM copy. No doubt, but I can always wish. I did however get a VG+ NJ copy for $75. Very happy with that...for now.
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Post by gst on Sept 1, 2015 14:11:53 GMT
•Do you only collect jazz? – Although I have records from every genre (yes even rap and country), I would say I’m willing to spend more money on original jazz or blues records than anything else. (this was the last answer and i agree and left it in). I would add that my collections is about 5/6 jazz, and the rest is mostly punk and metal with maybe 30 or so from other genres. You mentioned you were listening to Bjork in another post. Do you buy new releases on vinyl or just vintage?
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Post by Rich on Sept 1, 2015 14:31:01 GMT
Rich, Perhaps what you are is a *music* collector rather than a record collector per se. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It may seem a subtle distinction but given what you said about the music being the most important thing, and the supremacy of digital for convenience and (in some cases, anyway) fidelity, being a music collector seems to describe you more accurately. Do it and be happy, I say... I've given your comments some thought, Alun. To say that I generally collect music in the form of records, CDs, and MP3s, sure, it's true that I do that, but there's a passion (obsession, insanity, etc.) behind my record collecting that I feel makes it more worthy of the verb 'collecting'. Though digital music has those advantages, I generally prefer listening to jazz and other stuff like classic rock on vintage vinyl over listening to newer rock and hip hop etc. on CD because it's just a more exciting, fun experience. I know that a lot of record collectors are purists and don't listen to digital music but I don't think my tolerance of digital music makes me any less of a record collector...funny how in some ways I feel burdened by the obsessive tendencies that record collecting seems to exacerbate, but that in other ways I wear the 'record collector' badge with pride ha. I know my original post was somewhat pessimistic, and the truth is that I was feeling a bit less than good about my collecting at the time I wrote it. I find that this hobby definitely has its ups and downs, and that as much as I love it, I need to make an effort to find a good balance regarding the time and money I spend on it.
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Post by gregorythefish on Sept 2, 2015 0:40:20 GMT
I buy new releases on vinyl when they are from artists I trust with music I really love. i buy a few a year. Converge, for example, is a great metallic hardcore band that records entirely to analog tape and they master their own releases on a lathe and everything. truly DIY craftsmen, and I love it. alun and i had traded thoughts about a band called Sunn O))) recently and i must also say that their music must be heard on vinyl to be appreciated fully. i do not own any bjork on vinyl, but i would like to.
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Post by gregorythefish on Sept 2, 2015 0:40:53 GMT
i hate html so much.
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Post by alunsevern on Sept 2, 2015 15:13:16 GMT
Greg, When I owned some pop and rock music (which I don't any longer), all the Bjork I had was on vinyl - and surprisingly I had a lot: virtually everything that was around at that time, except for a few very scarce remixes. To my ears they all sounded better than the CD counterparts -- the textures of the music and especially the electronics and samples and so forth sounded better and were more....textured...
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